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hello everyone

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thanks for joining us today i'm justin

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bellco and today i'm moderating for our

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mark is a researcher activist artist and

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educator working at the intersection of

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technology social change and

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consciousness research

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his goal is to normalize psychic and

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afterlife related experiences in order

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to create a more compassionate

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sustainable and interconnected world

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he is the executive director of the

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windbridge research center a public

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charity dedicated to easing suffering

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around death dying and what comes next

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through rigorous scientific research in

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the publication of free science-based

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educational materials

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he has been awarded multiple competitive

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research grants to support his work with

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mental and physical mediums

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technologies facilitating after death

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communication experiences

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will now be presenting his work

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mediumship research and overview uh my

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name is mark pacuzzi and i will be on

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your guide for today

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okay so um there's some housekeeping

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notices uh

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i do mention various product services

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mostly books things like that

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i don't receive any endorsements for

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those products or services that are

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mentioned uh comments made about

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products or services are based on my own

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experiences your experiences may differ

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uh i will be talking about things about

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health and health care i am not a health

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care provider do not take health care

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advice from me and always check with

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your health care health care provider

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when considering treatment options or

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making lifestyle changes

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uh i'm declaring fair use on this video

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there are some

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items in here which are not being

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cleared for copyright but since this is

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uh for educational use uh i am

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uh declaring those items uh pilfered

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under fair use if you use this video for

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any other purpose you will be required

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to clear those copyrights

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okay

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now with all that stuff out of the way

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um hello from tucson arizona

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i'm mark pouketse where i live with my

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wife and research partner uh julie

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beischel

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and our two dogs toggle and ada grace

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and i mention the dogs because i am at

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home today and there's a very strong

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possibility that uh two dogs may come

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and attack me at any moment

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uh but we'll try to keep them at bay

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okay uh so just a little bit about me

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really quickly um in 2008 uh julie and i

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co-founded the winbridge institute

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which

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was

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originally a platform for julie and i to

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conduct mediumship and afterlife

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research but we retooled it in 2017

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and

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we moved the afterlife research into the

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winbridge research center which is a

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non-profit organization with the mission

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of studying dying death and what comes

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next

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and

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the the institute's still around we

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focus primarily on

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applied sci research

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and in 2019 i started a project called

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the parapsychology psi hacking project

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which is a effort to bring makers

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artists entrepreneurs and psy

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researchers together in order to create

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more public-facing installations and

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i am a full member of the society for

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scientific exploration i am also a full

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member a professional member of the

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parapsychological association

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my research has been published in

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various journals and i'm also as john

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mentioned an instructor at the ryan

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education center i just recently

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finished an introduction to

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parapsychology class

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and i taught i uh are in parapsychology

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uh

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so

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definitions and um

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uh with with the previous talks uh

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annalisa did a really wonderful job

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laying out sort of the layla land and

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christine simmons moore is always

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wonderful to hear her lecture and speak

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uh on her topics um but i kind of feel

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the need to sort of do a quick

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hit just to make sure everyone's on the

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same page in terms of terminology and

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terminology terminology in this field

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can actually be really difficult it uh

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it tends to be a little bit of a moving

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target so i'm gonna make my best effort

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at uh moving you through this material i

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also promise that this entire

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presentation will not be a set of bullet

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point lists but you are going to see a

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couple of slides of those right out of

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the gate so

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here we go a few quick definitions

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a discarnate

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is a survived consciousness that exists

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separate from a deceased physical body

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you'll hear me use these terms a lot

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a medium is someone who regularly

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experiences communication with

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discarnates people can have mediumistic

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experiences but that does necess that

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that does not necessarily make them a

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medium

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messages from a discarnate and conveying

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those meshes messages to the living and

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that whole process is very important

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a sitter

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is a living person who wants to hear

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from a discarnate through a medium

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and a reading

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is the event during which a medium

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contacts a discarnate on behalf of a

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sitter and assists in their

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communication

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a psychic is a living person who

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regularly

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retrieves information about the living

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the past the future

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out to other locations etc

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okay just a few quick more quick

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definitions i promise and some of these

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you probably already heard but

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i just we're going to go through them

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psy or the greek letter psi pronounce i

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is an umbrella term for certain types of

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psychic functioning including telepathy

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clairvoyance precognition and

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psychokinesis

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postmortem survival

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refers to the idea that some aspect of

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consciousness survives the death of the

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body it's also known as survival of

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bodily death the survival hypothesis or

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simply survival

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uh it covers a wide range of uh

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phenomena uh like analysis said there's

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mediumship reincarnation near death

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experiences ghosts and hauntings and

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apparitions and more

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um i want to do a little bit of a deep

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dive on the survival hypothesis

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definition from the parapsychological

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perspective and this is from uh the

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erwin and watt book

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uh introduction to parapsychology it's

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kind of the classic textbook these days

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uh for parapsychology so i'm just going

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to read this quote really quick the

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survival hypothesis concerns the notion

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of postmortem survival that is that a

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disembodied

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consciousness or some such discarnate

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element of human personality

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might survive bodily death at least for

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a time

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the survival hypothesis has obvious

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religious connotations but these are of

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no concern in scientific parapsychology

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and i think this is one of the things

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that makes studying

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mediumship really really

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difficult

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um it's that it's so the concept and the

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idea

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of mediumship and connection with

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ancestors and life after death is so

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entrenched in so many different cultures

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and

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um

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uh even when you start to sort of look

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at it in any kind of critical way

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especially when you're dealing with

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research participants that are living

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these experiences it becomes really

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touchy and really um

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really really tricky it's a tricky space

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to navigate and um

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uh i

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uh okay so just finishing up these

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definitions we talked about postmortem

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survival and then parapsychology is the

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scientific study of psi

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and survival okay i am now done with

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bullet point lists for the most part

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so ever since the beginning of recorded

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history and people have walked around

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and

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looked up at the sky they wanted to

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connect with these forces that that

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seemed bigger than us so they wanted to

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be able to heal the sick or predict the

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future or change the future or connect

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with the dead or their ancestors and as

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i was saying

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the this this idea of connecting with

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ancestors or connecting with the dead or

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communing with the dead or speaking to

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the dead uh is is pervasive around the

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world

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and um

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uh

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and i i

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i i don't study around the world

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unfortunately i i i there are there are

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many research organizations that are

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based all over the world that are doing

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all sorts of interesting uh sci research

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and afterlife research and um if you're

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interested in knowing more about the

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individual cultures uh and how the

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culture different cultures interact with

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the afterlife uh or ancestors i would

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highly recommend this book by edited by

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jack hunter and david luke called

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talking with spirits

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um but for me right now i'm gonna stay

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here in my little corner of arizona

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where the windbridge research center is

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located and our primary

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population of interest

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is modern american

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secular

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mental mediums and i'm gonna stay in my

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lane

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um for this conversation and it and

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uh

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what we learned about this population

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can spread out to other populations but

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i don't want to imply that everything

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that's happening here automatically

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applies to everyone everywhere

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so um i think it's really important to

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talk a little bit about history of

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parapsychology and its relation to

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mediumship before we dive into

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mediumship and this is a tool that i

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love to use all the time it's it's

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google's n book google books engram

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viewer and um

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what i've tracked here are three topics

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and it's spiritualism parapsychology and

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psychical research and what this tool

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does is it gives a sense of how often

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these

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terms appear in print over time and so

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this is a date range from the year 1800

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to 2019

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and

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you can track each one of these lines

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and see how things sort of become more

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popular or less popular and i think it's

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a really interesting metric

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so most parapsychologists will point to

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the year 1884

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and the fox sisters as sort of the

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birthplace of mediumship modern

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mediumship or or uh the the yeah sort of

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the start of what we would consider to

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00:11:19,509 --> 00:11:16,880
be modern mediumship research and the

289
00:11:21,590 --> 00:11:19,519
fox sisters lived in upstate new york

290
00:11:23,670 --> 00:11:21,600
and they reported

291
00:11:26,230 --> 00:11:23,680
uh all kinds of interesting phenomena

292
00:11:28,470 --> 00:11:26,240
they were hearing thumps and bangs and

293
00:11:31,829 --> 00:11:28,480
and it was all attributed to

294
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:31,839
discarnate communication and and spirits

295
00:11:37,750 --> 00:11:32,560
and

296
00:11:38,710 --> 00:11:37,760
sort of this sort of event that their

297
00:11:40,150 --> 00:11:38,720
their

298
00:11:41,190 --> 00:11:40,160
exposure

299
00:11:43,910 --> 00:11:41,200
really

300
00:11:46,550 --> 00:11:43,920
um many people believe was the catalyst

301
00:11:51,430 --> 00:11:46,560
in kicking off the spiritualism news

302
00:11:52,150 --> 00:11:51,440
movement uh in the us and in the uk

303
00:11:55,829 --> 00:11:52,160
so

304
00:11:57,670 --> 00:11:55,839
as those movements began to grow

305
00:11:59,030 --> 00:11:57,680
not only individuals

306
00:12:01,190 --> 00:11:59,040
people off the street were interested in

307
00:12:03,910 --> 00:12:01,200
them but scientists started to take

308
00:12:06,150 --> 00:12:03,920
notice as well and so in 1882 the

309
00:12:08,710 --> 00:12:06,160
society for psychical research was

310
00:12:11,430 --> 00:12:08,720
formed in london and the spr is still

311
00:12:12,550 --> 00:12:11,440
around today excuse me and someone

312
00:12:14,629 --> 00:12:12,560
mentioned the

313
00:12:16,870 --> 00:12:14,639
the their science encyclopedia it's

314
00:12:18,310 --> 00:12:16,880
excellent they have a great journal go

315
00:12:19,430 --> 00:12:18,320
check out their website they have really

316
00:12:20,389 --> 00:12:19,440
cool stuff

317
00:12:22,870 --> 00:12:20,399
um

318
00:12:24,870 --> 00:12:22,880
but they were

319
00:12:27,910 --> 00:12:24,880
effectively in my opinion were the real

320
00:12:30,470 --> 00:12:27,920
first organization that um

321
00:12:31,990 --> 00:12:30,480
started looking at mediumship and really

322
00:12:34,150 --> 00:12:32,000
psychic phenomena in general in a very

323
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:34,160
systematic way

324
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:37,200
shortly after the foundation of the spr

325
00:12:43,829 --> 00:12:39,360
the american society for psychical

326
00:12:46,310 --> 00:12:43,839
research was founded in boston in 1885

327
00:12:48,310 --> 00:12:46,320
and um

328
00:12:50,389 --> 00:12:48,320
pretty sure it's a boston yeah boston

329
00:12:53,590 --> 00:12:50,399
and um

330
00:12:55,269 --> 00:12:53,600
the spr is still exists in some way or

331
00:12:56,949 --> 00:12:55,279
another but their status is a little

332
00:12:58,790 --> 00:12:56,959
questionable so you can look them up on

333
00:13:01,030 --> 00:12:58,800
the science encyclopedia and get more

334
00:13:03,030 --> 00:13:01,040
about their backstory but

335
00:13:05,670 --> 00:13:03,040
uh these two organizations and other

336
00:13:08,470 --> 00:13:05,680
researchers around the world uh pretty

337
00:13:11,829 --> 00:13:08,480
much drove the mediumship and psychic

338
00:13:13,990 --> 00:13:11,839
research uh up until about 1930s up

339
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:14,000
until around the 1930s

340
00:13:18,150 --> 00:13:15,839
where um

341
00:13:21,350 --> 00:13:18,160
you see where where jb ryan who's been

342
00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:21,360
mentioned a few times now

343
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:24,399
came to duke university and the

344
00:13:28,389 --> 00:13:26,000
jv rhine

345
00:13:30,150 --> 00:13:28,399
duke parapsychology lab was formed

346
00:13:35,030 --> 00:13:30,160
and

347
00:13:37,590 --> 00:13:35,040
wife loiza

348
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:37,600
is that they not excuse me i'm totally

349
00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:38,530
frogging my throat

350
00:13:42,949 --> 00:13:41,680
[Music]

351
00:13:46,829 --> 00:13:42,959
thank you

352
00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:49,189
okay um

353
00:13:53,509 --> 00:13:51,040
the interesting thing about duke uh or

354
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:53,519
jb rein was that he

355
00:13:57,910 --> 00:13:55,519
re he he introduced from the german the

356
00:14:00,870 --> 00:13:57,920
term parapsychology and really

357
00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:00,880
restructured the research uh

358
00:14:07,350 --> 00:14:05,440
into a a different paradigm so

359
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:07,360
while pretty much everyone else at the

360
00:14:10,949 --> 00:14:09,600
time was was involved with mediumship

361
00:14:12,790 --> 00:14:10,959
one way or another

362
00:14:17,430 --> 00:14:12,800
uh

363
00:14:20,230 --> 00:14:17,440
we're not gonna do mediums we're gonna

364
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:20,240
avoid any scandals or acquisitions for

365
00:14:25,030 --> 00:14:22,480
accusations of fraud uh there was a lot

366
00:14:25,829 --> 00:14:25,040
of fraud uh being reported at that time

367
00:14:29,110 --> 00:14:25,839
and

368
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:29,120
uh potentially untoward activity uh with

369
00:14:34,069 --> 00:14:32,160
various mediums and um ryan didn't want

370
00:14:36,629 --> 00:14:34,079
to get involved with any of that stuff

371
00:14:38,710 --> 00:14:36,639
and rightfully so and there was another

372
00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:38,720
fundamental logical problem that he

373
00:14:42,629 --> 00:14:41,360
faced which is this idea of telepathy

374
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:42,639
with the living

375
00:14:47,590 --> 00:14:44,720
versus spirit communication i'm going to

376
00:14:48,870 --> 00:14:47,600
dig into that just a little bit

377
00:14:51,509 --> 00:14:48,880
so

378
00:14:53,590 --> 00:14:51,519
what we mean here is that we have a

379
00:14:55,750 --> 00:14:53,600
medium

380
00:14:56,829 --> 00:14:55,760
and we have a sitter

381
00:15:00,790 --> 00:14:56,839
and we have a

382
00:15:02,790 --> 00:15:00,800
discarnate and the sitter in this very

383
00:15:04,550 --> 00:15:02,800
overly simplified example

384
00:15:06,870 --> 00:15:04,560
will ask the medium well tell me

385
00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:06,880
something about my deceased mother

386
00:15:11,670 --> 00:15:08,800
and the discarded who's the deceased

387
00:15:13,670 --> 00:15:11,680
mother says oh my name's karen

388
00:15:16,150 --> 00:15:13,680
the medium uses

389
00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:16,160
psy or telepathy mind to mind

390
00:15:19,590 --> 00:15:17,360
communication

391
00:15:22,150 --> 00:15:19,600
to retrieve that information from the

392
00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:22,160
discarnate

393
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:23,519
um

394
00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:28,880
so receive the information from the

395
00:15:32,790 --> 00:15:31,360
discarnate sorry uh

396
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:32,800
so then the media might say something

397
00:15:36,389 --> 00:15:34,800
was your mom's name karen

398
00:15:38,470 --> 00:15:36,399
the sitter would then find that

399
00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:38,480
evidential and there would be a

400
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:40,720
connection made and the reading would

401
00:15:43,749 --> 00:15:42,720
could progress sort of like that

402
00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:43,759
uh

403
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:47,440
this idea of using telepathy to

404
00:15:53,189 --> 00:15:50,480
communicate with discarded is called

405
00:15:57,189 --> 00:15:53,199
survival psy and it's a term

406
00:16:00,790 --> 00:15:58,550
however there's an alternative

407
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:00,800
explanation for what's happening here

408
00:16:07,269 --> 00:16:05,040
so same setup medium sitter discarnate

409
00:16:09,590 --> 00:16:07,279
sitter says tell me about my mother

410
00:16:10,870 --> 00:16:09,600
but the sitter knows the name of her

411
00:16:14,230 --> 00:16:10,880
mother

412
00:16:16,629 --> 00:16:14,240
so the medium doesn't

413
00:16:19,110 --> 00:16:16,639
use telepathy to contact the discarnate

414
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:19,120
the medium gets the information directly

415
00:16:23,430 --> 00:16:20,880
from the sitter and this could happen

416
00:16:26,230 --> 00:16:23,440
through any number of psi modalities

417
00:16:28,389 --> 00:16:26,240
uh but then the medium would say oh was

418
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:28,399
your mother names was your mother's name

419
00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:30,720
karen and the sitter would take that as

420
00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:31,920
evidential

421
00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:33,600
and um

422
00:16:36,949 --> 00:16:35,120
however in this

423
00:16:38,389 --> 00:16:36,959
scenario there's still

424
00:16:40,389 --> 00:16:38,399
parapsychology happening there's still

425
00:16:42,069 --> 00:16:40,399
psy happening there's still technology

426
00:16:44,790 --> 00:16:42,079
hap or

427
00:16:47,350 --> 00:16:44,800
telepathy happening but there's no need

428
00:16:48,629 --> 00:16:47,360
for a discarnate in this model

429
00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:48,639
and

430
00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:49,440
uh

431
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:52,480
this form of psy is called somatic sides

432
00:16:55,749 --> 00:16:54,240
also sometimes called super psy or

433
00:16:57,829 --> 00:16:55,759
living agency

434
00:17:00,230 --> 00:16:57,839
we're moving away from those those terms

435
00:17:02,629 --> 00:17:00,240
they're not particularly accurate uh and

436
00:17:04,949 --> 00:17:02,639
this was a term uh

437
00:17:06,470 --> 00:17:04,959
uh coined by bishol and rock a few years

438
00:17:08,470 --> 00:17:06,480
ago as well

439
00:17:11,750 --> 00:17:08,480
so we have somatic sci

440
00:17:16,789 --> 00:17:13,990
and the problem with these two

441
00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:16,799
alternative hypotheses is that up until

442
00:17:21,429 --> 00:17:19,280
very recently there was no way

443
00:17:24,069 --> 00:17:21,439
to break the tie

444
00:17:25,189 --> 00:17:24,079
uh to decide where the information was

445
00:17:27,829 --> 00:17:25,199
coming from

446
00:17:29,830 --> 00:17:27,839
and um there was no way methodologically

447
00:17:30,630 --> 00:17:29,840
to do that and people thought about that

448
00:17:33,029 --> 00:17:30,640
for

449
00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:33,039
a really really long time and it is

450
00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:34,240
still

451
00:17:38,789 --> 00:17:36,480
heavily debated in the field as to

452
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:38,799
whether or not we can ever truly break

453
00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:41,120
this tie between survival psi and

454
00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:43,840
somatic psi so at that point

455
00:17:49,190 --> 00:17:46,240
mediumship research didn't die or go

456
00:17:50,549 --> 00:17:49,200
away 100 but it sort of got relegated to

457
00:17:53,350 --> 00:17:50,559
the back room

458
00:17:55,750 --> 00:17:53,360
and uh ryan then decided and other

459
00:17:58,390 --> 00:17:55,760
researchers decided to focus on topics

460
00:18:01,430 --> 00:17:58,400
that were um

461
00:18:02,470 --> 00:18:01,440
more easily testable in the lab

462
00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:02,480
and so

463
00:18:07,669 --> 00:18:05,600
even as early as 2005 uh the late

464
00:18:10,470 --> 00:18:07,679
william broad who was a fundamental

465
00:18:12,150 --> 00:18:10,480
researcher in our field uh and wrote

466
00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:12,160
this amazing book called uh distant

467
00:18:16,870 --> 00:18:14,960
mental influence was quoted saying today

468
00:18:18,710 --> 00:18:16,880
psy research restricts itself almost

469
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:18,720
exclusively to the big four phenomena of

470
00:18:24,549 --> 00:18:21,200
telepathy clairvoyance precognition and

471
00:18:26,870 --> 00:18:24,559
psychokinesis with the occasional nod

472
00:18:28,950 --> 00:18:26,880
towards survival and afterlife topics

473
00:18:32,310 --> 00:18:28,960
now i remember taking i first got

474
00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:32,320
involved in parapsychology in 2005

475
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:35,520
and i'm through the rhine excuse me

476
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:37,440
through the ryan research center's

477
00:18:42,470 --> 00:18:38,880
um

478
00:18:44,870 --> 00:18:42,480
parapsychology i remember talking to the

479
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:44,880
instructors there and saying well

480
00:18:47,909 --> 00:18:47,200
survival and a number of people were

481
00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:47,919
like

482
00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:50,320
don't do it survival is not an area that

483
00:18:53,830 --> 00:18:52,000
you're going to get funding it's not

484
00:18:56,710 --> 00:18:53,840
anything that people take seriously and

485
00:18:57,669 --> 00:18:56,720
i think that that's funny today

486
00:18:59,590 --> 00:18:57,679
um

487
00:19:04,390 --> 00:18:59,600
so

488
00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:04,400
here's our timeline and here we're we're

489
00:19:09,590 --> 00:19:06,640
tracking mediumship right and we see it

490
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:09,600
sort of ebbs and flows and but by 2005

491
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:12,960
where this occasional nod concept con

492
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:14,960
comment was made we already start to see

493
00:19:17,669 --> 00:19:16,799
this interesting spike

494
00:19:21,430 --> 00:19:17,679
in

495
00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:21,440
materials related to mediumship and so

496
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:24,960
in around early 2000s there was this

497
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:27,360
sort of public shift in interest in

498
00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:29,760
survival topics and so this is something

499
00:19:34,230 --> 00:19:32,160
i personally call the survival revival

500
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:34,240
no one ever calls it that but i'm trying

501
00:19:42,710 --> 00:19:39,909
and for me the really interesting bits

502
00:19:45,750 --> 00:19:42,720
happened with uh tricia robertson and

503
00:19:47,590 --> 00:19:45,760
archie roy who published two papers

504
00:19:50,310 --> 00:19:47,600
looking at using a double-blind

505
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:50,320
procedure to set for assessing the

506
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:53,280
relevance of a medium statements to uh

507
00:19:57,350 --> 00:19:55,440
to a recipient so so how could they look

508
00:20:00,070 --> 00:19:57,360
at mediumship accuracy and then they

509
00:20:02,149 --> 00:20:00,080
followed up with another paper in 2004.

510
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:02,159
so right around this time as well

511
00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:03,840
academics were writing some interesting

512
00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:06,000
books about the afterlife and mediumship

513
00:20:10,870 --> 00:20:08,640
there was this explosion of

514
00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:10,880
of uh television shows

515
00:20:16,549 --> 00:20:13,200
uh and so all this was sort of building

516
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:16,559
up over the course of the next few years

517
00:20:21,669 --> 00:20:18,640
uh for me the next big

518
00:20:23,990 --> 00:20:21,679
milestone was uh my wife and research

519
00:20:25,669 --> 00:20:24,000
partner uh julie baishol

520
00:20:27,669 --> 00:20:25,679
co-authored a paper with gary schwartz

521
00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:27,679
dr gary schwartz at the university of

522
00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:29,840
arizona entitled anomalous information

523
00:20:33,990 --> 00:20:31,840
reception by research mediums

524
00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:34,000
demonstrating a novel triple blind

525
00:20:36,310 --> 00:20:35,280
protocol

526
00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:36,320
and

527
00:20:40,230 --> 00:20:38,880
that paper in my opinion really set the

528
00:20:42,789 --> 00:20:40,240
bar for

529
00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:42,799
how people would start to approach

530
00:20:46,470 --> 00:20:44,400
accuracy

531
00:20:48,710 --> 00:20:46,480
testing of mediums

532
00:20:51,270 --> 00:20:48,720
in 2008 we've julie and i formed the

533
00:20:52,950 --> 00:20:51,280
windbridge institute uh and julie

534
00:20:54,549 --> 00:20:52,960
published a paper called contemporary

535
00:20:57,270 --> 00:20:54,559
methods used in laboratory-based

536
00:21:00,149 --> 00:20:57,280
mediumship research and this paper

537
00:21:02,870 --> 00:21:00,159
outlines the protocol and how to

538
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:02,880
pre-screen mediums uh which we'll talk

539
00:21:09,029 --> 00:21:05,520
about in a minute and really lays out

540
00:21:11,909 --> 00:21:09,039
the entire research program

541
00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:11,919
but for me things really changed in 2009

542
00:21:17,510 --> 00:21:14,880
when julie adam rock myself and another

543
00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:17,520
researcher named mike piso uh received a

544
00:21:21,590 --> 00:21:19,679
bl foundation award this is a granting

545
00:21:23,909 --> 00:21:21,600
organization based in portugal and they

546
00:21:25,909 --> 00:21:23,919
actually paid us to do mediumship

547
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:25,919
research and when people saw that we

548
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:27,840
were getting funded a number of people

549
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:29,200
came out of the woodwork and were like

550
00:21:32,149 --> 00:21:30,480
i've always wanted to do mediumship

551
00:21:34,710 --> 00:21:32,159
research but i was always scared of the

552
00:21:35,909 --> 00:21:34,720
pushback or the you know um and if you

553
00:21:38,070 --> 00:21:35,919
guys are getting funded can we talk

554
00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:38,080
about it and and that to me was a big

555
00:21:43,029 --> 00:21:40,799
change in the way parapsychology started

556
00:21:46,390 --> 00:21:43,039
to think about mediumship

557
00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:46,400
and afterlife topics 2016 the institute

558
00:21:50,390 --> 00:21:48,320
that reorganized into the center the

559
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:50,400
next year so this is really interesting

560
00:21:56,230 --> 00:21:54,240
so in 2016 uh the pa ssc meeting this

561
00:21:58,549 --> 00:21:56,240
was the last time the pa sse meeting

562
00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:58,559
happened a joint meeting and if you go

563
00:22:03,110 --> 00:22:00,320
back to the um

564
00:22:05,190 --> 00:22:03,120
the program for that meeting

565
00:22:08,149 --> 00:22:05,200
you can see that there were literally

566
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:08,159
three topics under the mediumship and

567
00:22:12,470 --> 00:22:09,360
survival

568
00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:12,480
uh grouping in that so one was on

569
00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:14,559
experimental table tipping

570
00:22:18,310 --> 00:22:16,480
one was on the transform spiritually

571
00:22:20,390 --> 00:22:18,320
transformative experiences of claimant

572
00:22:21,669 --> 00:22:20,400
mediums and what's interesting here is

573
00:22:23,909 --> 00:22:21,679
that uh

574
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:23,919
bill everest actually i sponsored him to

575
00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:25,360
be in that meeting and he was actually a

576
00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:26,400
wimbridge

577
00:22:31,590 --> 00:22:27,840
volunteer

578
00:22:33,590 --> 00:22:31,600
and julie dr julie bichol um

579
00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:33,600
presenting a comprehensive survey of

580
00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:35,840
secular american mediums and that was it

581
00:22:39,750 --> 00:22:37,840
so i'm not saying like this was the only

582
00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:39,760
research the only afterlife and

583
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:41,200
mediumship research going on in the

584
00:22:45,190 --> 00:22:42,960
world at the time but this was the only

585
00:22:47,830 --> 00:22:45,200
research being represented at basically

586
00:22:51,510 --> 00:22:47,840
the two largest conferences in the us

587
00:22:54,230 --> 00:22:51,520
that would support this work

588
00:22:56,230 --> 00:22:54,240
jump ahead to 2021 and the field has

589
00:22:58,710 --> 00:22:56,240
gotten much much

590
00:22:59,750 --> 00:22:58,720
much broader uh if you go through the

591
00:23:01,190 --> 00:22:59,760
the um

592
00:23:03,430 --> 00:23:01,200
the program today you're going to see a

593
00:23:05,590 --> 00:23:03,440
lot more people uh presenting about

594
00:23:07,350 --> 00:23:05,600
different aspects of mediumship and

595
00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:07,360
afterlife and after death communication

596
00:23:10,149 --> 00:23:08,400
experiences

597
00:23:11,350 --> 00:23:10,159
and so this is really great and i think

598
00:23:15,350 --> 00:23:11,360
this is um

599
00:23:17,590 --> 00:23:15,360
this is uh shows that i think finally

600
00:23:19,669 --> 00:23:17,600
uh these topics have sort of eeked their

601
00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:19,679
way out of the dark little corners and

602
00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:20,720
uh

603
00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:22,559
parapsychology is giving more than just

604
00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:26,320
the occasional nod now to these topics

605
00:23:28,950 --> 00:23:27,120
um

606
00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:28,960
so just a quick thing i'll just fly

607
00:23:33,270 --> 00:23:31,440
through this really quick so you can see

608
00:23:35,590 --> 00:23:33,280
again we're we're tracking

609
00:23:37,510 --> 00:23:35,600
parapsychology we're tracking mediumship

610
00:23:39,029 --> 00:23:37,520
and i think this is this is a nice

611
00:23:41,990 --> 00:23:39,039
little um

612
00:23:44,070 --> 00:23:42,000
metaphor or you know of of where the

613
00:23:46,149 --> 00:23:44,080
fields sort of are

614
00:23:48,710 --> 00:23:46,159
melding and coming together currently

615
00:23:50,950 --> 00:23:48,720
and then the survival revival

616
00:23:53,590 --> 00:23:50,960
okay so let's actually dig and start

617
00:23:56,070 --> 00:23:53,600
talking about some research

618
00:23:58,070 --> 00:23:56,080
so um

619
00:23:59,510 --> 00:23:58,080
i'm going to talk about modern research

620
00:24:01,510 --> 00:23:59,520
as it's happening over the last few

621
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:01,520
years especially through the lens of the

622
00:24:05,669 --> 00:24:03,360
windbridge research center and there's a

623
00:24:07,669 --> 00:24:05,679
couple of areas i want to talk about and

624
00:24:09,909 --> 00:24:07,679
then we'll dive into we'll go a little

625
00:24:10,950 --> 00:24:09,919
bit deeper it'll be like an onion

626
00:24:12,070 --> 00:24:10,960
um

627
00:24:14,470 --> 00:24:12,080
so the first thing i want to talk about

628
00:24:16,710 --> 00:24:14,480
is population who are the people that we

629
00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:16,720
work with uh i want to talk about our

630
00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:18,400
research approach and i'm going to talk

631
00:24:23,269 --> 00:24:20,080
about results

632
00:24:26,310 --> 00:24:23,279
so our population as i mentioned uh is

633
00:24:29,190 --> 00:24:26,320
made up of mediums and mediums generally

634
00:24:33,669 --> 00:24:29,200
come in two broad yet overlapping

635
00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:33,679
flavors uh or uh um abilities or

636
00:24:37,669 --> 00:24:36,080
interests or styles one is called mental

637
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:37,679
mediumship which i've been talking about

638
00:24:40,710 --> 00:24:39,760
and a mental mediumship is a person that

639
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:40,720
conveys

640
00:24:45,269 --> 00:24:42,960
spoken messages

641
00:24:47,190 --> 00:24:45,279
from deceased animals or people known as

642
00:24:48,710 --> 00:24:47,200
discarnates to living people sitter

643
00:24:50,549 --> 00:24:48,720
during a specific event known as a

644
00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:50,559
reading

645
00:24:55,830 --> 00:24:53,440
a physical medium however facilitates

646
00:24:57,990 --> 00:24:55,840
the creation of independent voices

647
00:24:59,350 --> 00:24:58,000
paranormal lights apports which are

648
00:25:01,110 --> 00:24:59,360
objects that seem to appear out of

649
00:25:03,190 --> 00:25:01,120
nowhere

650
00:25:05,269 --> 00:25:03,200
levitation or movement of objects

651
00:25:08,870 --> 00:25:05,279
ectoplasm which is a material that seems

652
00:25:10,630 --> 00:25:08,880
to extrude from the medium's body

653
00:25:13,269 --> 00:25:10,640
sounds wraps and other physical

654
00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:13,279
phenomena this is generally put under

655
00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:14,720
the

656
00:25:19,510 --> 00:25:18,080
label of macro psychokinesis or macro pk

657
00:25:21,669 --> 00:25:19,520
effects

658
00:25:24,070 --> 00:25:21,679
now at winbridge we've studied

659
00:25:26,950 --> 00:25:24,080
uh physical medium just a mediumship

660
00:25:28,950 --> 00:25:26,960
just a little bit we received a a very

661
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:28,960
generous grant from the pa's gilbert

662
00:25:34,630 --> 00:25:31,919
rollers fund back in 2013

663
00:25:36,230 --> 00:25:34,640
and uh we did some work with uh with

664
00:25:37,269 --> 00:25:36,240
table tipping and other kinds of

665
00:25:39,190 --> 00:25:37,279
phenomena

666
00:25:40,549 --> 00:25:39,200
and

667
00:25:43,510 --> 00:25:40,559
but

668
00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:43,520
uh physical mediumship isn't as popular

669
00:25:47,750 --> 00:25:46,080
in the us as it is in other places and

670
00:25:49,669 --> 00:25:47,760
so the majority of mediums that we're

671
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:49,679
going to run into our mental medium so

672
00:25:53,990 --> 00:25:51,840
we're refocused on that

673
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:54,000
uh if you're interested in physical and

674
00:25:57,190 --> 00:25:55,440
learning more about physical mediumship

675
00:25:58,710 --> 00:25:57,200
i would recommend lizzie kane's book

676
00:26:01,350 --> 00:25:58,720
surviving death she's got some

677
00:26:03,909 --> 00:26:01,360
interesting chapters in there

678
00:26:05,830 --> 00:26:03,919
okay so we work with mental mediums

679
00:26:07,909 --> 00:26:05,840
again modern american secular mental

680
00:26:10,230 --> 00:26:07,919
mediums they're the most common

681
00:26:11,669 --> 00:26:10,240
uh mediums in the us but what's

682
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:11,679
interesting about the mediums we work

683
00:26:17,029 --> 00:26:14,640
with is that they not only give readings

684
00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:17,039
where they connect with deceased people

685
00:26:21,029 --> 00:26:18,960
but they also give psychic readings for

686
00:26:23,430 --> 00:26:21,039
the living right so as we mentioned the

687
00:26:25,269 --> 00:26:23,440
psychic can get information about or

688
00:26:27,909 --> 00:26:25,279
from living people distant locations or

689
00:26:29,669 --> 00:26:27,919
events and or times in the future or in

690
00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:29,679
the past

691
00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:31,440
so this brings up a really interesting

692
00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:33,440
point which i if you have a takeaway

693
00:26:36,870 --> 00:26:35,039
from today this is a takeaway i'd like

694
00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:36,880
you to take i'd like you to bring with

695
00:26:44,870 --> 00:26:40,400
you um is that all mediums are psychic

696
00:26:48,149 --> 00:26:45,990
okay

697
00:26:50,390 --> 00:26:48,159
so one of the things that is very

698
00:26:53,029 --> 00:26:50,400
important in parapsychology research in

699
00:26:55,510 --> 00:26:53,039
general and what we do is we work with

700
00:26:57,190 --> 00:26:55,520
what with a pre-screened

701
00:26:59,909 --> 00:26:57,200
set of participants right so when we're

702
00:27:01,029 --> 00:26:59,919
looking to test a specific phenomena we

703
00:27:02,789 --> 00:27:01,039
want to know

704
00:27:05,110 --> 00:27:02,799
that the people that we're working with

705
00:27:07,190 --> 00:27:05,120
can actually do the thing the task that

706
00:27:08,789 --> 00:27:07,200
we're asking them to do otherwise it's a

707
00:27:10,390 --> 00:27:08,799
big waste of time and money and effort

708
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:10,400
and no one's happy

709
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:11,840
so we go through a process of

710
00:27:17,190 --> 00:27:14,320
pre-screening and our process

711
00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:17,200
uh is cut results in individuals who

712
00:27:22,389 --> 00:27:19,679
become winbridge certified research

713
00:27:24,470 --> 00:27:22,399
mediums or wikerms and each recurm has

714
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:24,480
to go through an eight-step process that

715
00:27:29,990 --> 00:27:26,880
includes interviews and

716
00:27:30,950 --> 00:27:30,000
uh blinded or masked readings over the

717
00:27:33,430 --> 00:27:30,960
phone

718
00:27:36,870 --> 00:27:33,440
and uh tests and training and all kinds

719
00:27:39,350 --> 00:27:36,880
of stuff can take months up to a year to

720
00:27:41,350 --> 00:27:39,360
for to move up a curb through

721
00:27:43,110 --> 00:27:41,360
uh the training process the training and

722
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:43,120
certification process

723
00:27:47,590 --> 00:27:45,360
before anybody asks we are not doing

724
00:27:49,909 --> 00:27:47,600
with kerms certification anymore uh the

725
00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:49,919
program is closed uh we may start it up

726
00:27:53,510 --> 00:27:51,760
in the future but we have no plans to do

727
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:53,520
that at the moment

728
00:27:58,389 --> 00:27:55,440
but we what we've ended up with is a

729
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:58,399
population of these pre-screened

730
00:28:02,870 --> 00:28:00,960
pre-trained uh

731
00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:02,880
winbridge certified research mediums who

732
00:28:08,310 --> 00:28:05,600
can perform who are science-minded can

733
00:28:10,789 --> 00:28:08,320
follow directions follow protocol and

734
00:28:13,669 --> 00:28:10,799
can uh produce these effects as we

735
00:28:19,190 --> 00:28:16,549
so we also work with sitters so

736
00:28:21,909 --> 00:28:19,200
uh we in order to get the most uh

737
00:28:24,230 --> 00:28:21,919
optimized experience from our sitters we

738
00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:24,240
train them as well so we train them in

739
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:26,080
our accuracy scoring system they're

740
00:28:29,909 --> 00:28:27,840
trained in experimental procedures and

741
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:29,919
they must successfully score a test

742
00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:31,440
reading before they're allowed into the

743
00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:35,669
so that's sort of an overview of our

744
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:37,840
population so i want to talk a little

745
00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:40,080
bit about our research approach

746
00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:42,000
and

747
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:44,080
this might sound a little preachy but uh

748
00:28:47,990 --> 00:28:46,080
i'm very passionate about this topic and

749
00:28:49,750 --> 00:28:48,000
i have strong opinions about how

750
00:28:50,870 --> 00:28:49,760
research how research in this area

751
00:28:53,029 --> 00:28:50,880
should work

752
00:28:54,710 --> 00:28:53,039
so um

753
00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:54,720
one of the driving forces at winbridge

754
00:28:59,110 --> 00:28:56,640
is that um you can do it faster you can

755
00:29:00,389 --> 00:28:59,120
do it right and so there's always an

756
00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:00,399
interest in

757
00:29:05,590 --> 00:29:03,600
optimizing and reducing costs and

758
00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:05,600
running as many participants as possible

759
00:29:07,750 --> 00:29:06,960
and all that's really important

760
00:29:10,389 --> 00:29:07,760
especially in a field like

761
00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:10,399
parapsychology where resources are

762
00:29:15,190 --> 00:29:12,720
really thin um

763
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:15,200
we try not to get fall into that trap we

764
00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:17,039
would rather do a large complicated

765
00:29:20,950 --> 00:29:18,880
study that covers all the bases and does

766
00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:20,960
everything right then push through and

767
00:29:25,590 --> 00:29:23,440
just try to be a publication machine or

768
00:29:26,870 --> 00:29:25,600
just collect data from data's sake

769
00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:26,880
and i'm not saying that everyone does

770
00:29:31,909 --> 00:29:30,240
that but you know it's it's an easy trap

771
00:29:34,870 --> 00:29:31,919
to fall into especially for a small

772
00:29:38,710 --> 00:29:34,880
organization like us that um

773
00:29:43,590 --> 00:29:41,350
you need to study the phenomena as it is

774
00:29:45,269 --> 00:29:43,600
not how we want it to be so we need to

775
00:29:47,669 --> 00:29:45,279
look at the phenomenology or the

776
00:29:49,990 --> 00:29:47,679
experience of the phenomena and then

777
00:29:51,669 --> 00:29:50,000
design experiments accordingly again

778
00:29:53,350 --> 00:29:51,679
there's an easy trap to be like oh

779
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:53,360
wouldn't it be cool if you get a medium

780
00:29:56,549 --> 00:29:54,720
and you can put her in a bag and then

781
00:29:58,470 --> 00:29:56,559
throw her in a lake and then see if she

782
00:30:00,389 --> 00:29:58,480
can read something like that's not the

783
00:30:02,389 --> 00:30:00,399
way mediumship works right that's we

784
00:30:05,269 --> 00:30:02,399
have we have centers we have mediums we

785
00:30:08,070 --> 00:30:05,279
have verbal messages we have right so so

786
00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:08,080
you know stay in the within the scope of

787
00:30:11,430 --> 00:30:10,080
the reported phenomena otherwise you're

788
00:30:12,870 --> 00:30:11,440
probably studying something that's not

789
00:30:14,710 --> 00:30:12,880
mediumship

790
00:30:16,789 --> 00:30:14,720
you want to optimize your conditions for

791
00:30:18,070 --> 00:30:16,799
success now this seems like it might be

792
00:30:20,310 --> 00:30:18,080
cheating a little bit in science but

793
00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:20,320
it's really not so for example

794
00:30:25,510 --> 00:30:22,159
uh if i get some seeds and i put them on

795
00:30:27,990 --> 00:30:25,520
my counter and i deny them light and

796
00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:28,000
water and soil and i come back the next

797
00:30:31,750 --> 00:30:29,679
day and they're just still seeds and i

798
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:31,760
yell at them and call them frauds and

799
00:30:36,310 --> 00:30:33,440
say that they're not you know how dare

800
00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:36,320
you call yourself seeds um that's really

801
00:30:41,190 --> 00:30:38,880
poor science right in order for these

802
00:30:43,029 --> 00:30:41,200
uh seeds to germinate they need to have

803
00:30:45,430 --> 00:30:43,039
the optimal conditions right they need

804
00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:45,440
temperature and possibly water and soil

805
00:30:49,510 --> 00:30:48,000
and maybe even light and then we can see

806
00:30:51,990 --> 00:30:49,520
whether or not they're frauds but if i

807
00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:52,000
don't give them the materials and

808
00:30:56,070 --> 00:30:54,080
resources that they need we can never

809
00:30:57,590 --> 00:30:56,080
experience the phenomena

810
00:30:59,990 --> 00:30:57,600
and the same thing goes with mediumship

811
00:31:01,590 --> 00:31:00,000
research so again we use pre-scheme

812
00:31:03,909 --> 00:31:01,600
screen participants carefully

813
00:31:06,549 --> 00:31:03,919
pre-screened participants we ensure the

814
00:31:08,870 --> 00:31:06,559
experiment fits the phenomena uh we

815
00:31:10,549 --> 00:31:08,880
match the live experience of the sitters

816
00:31:11,909 --> 00:31:10,559
and the mediums with the experiments

817
00:31:14,230 --> 00:31:11,919
that we're trying to run

818
00:31:16,149 --> 00:31:14,240
we it's very important in my opinion to

819
00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:16,159
protect participants even from

820
00:31:20,710 --> 00:31:18,960
themselves there's a

821
00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:20,720
um

822
00:31:24,950 --> 00:31:23,679
there's a tendency and well you know

823
00:31:27,110 --> 00:31:24,960
this is like i was mentioning this is a

824
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:27,120
tough field so a lot of times you may be

825
00:31:31,110 --> 00:31:28,880
dealing with sitters who are deeply

826
00:31:32,789 --> 00:31:31,120
grieving and so they may be wanting a

827
00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:32,799
mediumship reading to help alleviate

828
00:31:36,870 --> 00:31:34,720
that grief but you have to really be

829
00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:36,880
careful because you're not providing a

830
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:38,640
treatment you're performing an

831
00:31:42,549 --> 00:31:41,039
experiment and depending on how that

832
00:31:45,110 --> 00:31:42,559
experiment goes

833
00:31:47,029 --> 00:31:45,120
you could really end up hurting people

834
00:31:48,470 --> 00:31:47,039
and um

835
00:31:50,470 --> 00:31:48,480
and so

836
00:31:52,630 --> 00:31:50,480
just because you know your ethics

837
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:52,640
committee says oh yeah sure you should

838
00:31:55,990 --> 00:31:54,480
do this thing does it you could do this

839
00:31:57,669 --> 00:31:56,000
thing doesn't necessarily mean you

840
00:31:59,509 --> 00:31:57,679
should and the other thing too is that

841
00:32:01,110 --> 00:31:59,519
there are people who are just really

842
00:32:03,190 --> 00:32:01,120
passionate about this and will do

843
00:32:04,950 --> 00:32:03,200
anything just to just to do it because

844
00:32:06,789 --> 00:32:04,960
they want to learn and they want to they

845
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:06,799
want to explain so they'll they they may

846
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:08,240
take risks

847
00:32:12,950 --> 00:32:09,120
in

848
00:32:14,470 --> 00:32:12,960
research that if it was for a different

849
00:32:16,310 --> 00:32:14,480
topic or a different thing they might

850
00:32:19,509 --> 00:32:16,320
they might not do

851
00:32:22,149 --> 00:32:19,519
or um there's also this uh idea that if

852
00:32:26,070 --> 00:32:22,159
if certain if if certain practitioners

853
00:32:29,110 --> 00:32:26,080
can be validated by uh a research lab it

854
00:32:30,389 --> 00:32:29,120
it um it helps it provides them with an

855
00:32:31,830 --> 00:32:30,399
opportunity to make more money right

856
00:32:33,509 --> 00:32:31,840
because there are some very very

857
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:33,519
successful mediums out there that have

858
00:32:38,789 --> 00:32:37,440
been validated by various labs and um

859
00:32:42,870 --> 00:32:38,799
and so again these people might be

860
00:32:45,669 --> 00:32:42,880
willing to take risks that um might

861
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:45,679
not they might not normally take and i

862
00:32:51,110 --> 00:32:48,240
feel like as research scientists we have

863
00:32:53,190 --> 00:32:51,120
a extra responsibility to protect those

864
00:32:54,710 --> 00:32:53,200
participants

865
00:32:56,950 --> 00:32:54,720
um

866
00:32:59,190 --> 00:32:56,960
we also consider discarded motivation

867
00:33:00,549 --> 00:32:59,200
right so that's why we always connect a

868
00:33:03,190 --> 00:33:00,559
sitter to the

869
00:33:05,590 --> 00:33:03,200
to the um experiment right because let's

870
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:05,600
say there's a discarnate like i don't

871
00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:07,679
know some famous dead person marilyn

872
00:33:11,990 --> 00:33:10,000
monroe and i'm like hey medium go talk

873
00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:12,000
to marilyn monroe well why would marilyn

874
00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:14,240
monroe want to talk to me

875
00:33:18,470 --> 00:33:15,840
but i'm certainly not that interesting

876
00:33:20,549 --> 00:33:18,480
and we have no kind of connection uh

877
00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:20,559
but if i'm like hey could you contact my

878
00:33:23,190 --> 00:33:21,360
dead

879
00:33:25,509 --> 00:33:23,200
mother who died

880
00:33:27,269 --> 00:33:25,519
you know last year um

881
00:33:29,269 --> 00:33:27,279
there's a personal connection there and

882
00:33:31,110 --> 00:33:29,279
that my mother may actually want to come

883
00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:31,120
through and and speak to me through a

884
00:33:36,549 --> 00:33:34,960
medium so this idea of uh connection

885
00:33:38,870 --> 00:33:36,559
personal connection

886
00:33:41,190 --> 00:33:38,880
and pairing the disco making sure the

887
00:33:43,269 --> 00:33:41,200
discarnate has a reason to participate

888
00:33:45,669 --> 00:33:43,279
in research um

889
00:33:47,110 --> 00:33:45,679
is really important and because i can't

890
00:33:48,950 --> 00:33:47,120
think of anything more boring than being

891
00:33:50,710 --> 00:33:48,960
dead and then like having to answer a

892
00:33:52,710 --> 00:33:50,720
bunch of questions

893
00:33:54,870 --> 00:33:52,720
through a medium to a research scientist

894
00:33:55,750 --> 00:33:54,880
it's a terrible afterlife

895
00:33:57,990 --> 00:33:55,760
um

896
00:34:00,389 --> 00:33:58,000
we also want to maximize experimental

897
00:34:01,590 --> 00:34:00,399
control so we're optimizing for success

898
00:34:03,909 --> 00:34:01,600
but we're making sure that our

899
00:34:06,070 --> 00:34:03,919
experiments are properly masked with

900
00:34:08,069 --> 00:34:06,080
blinding have proper randomization

901
00:34:12,629 --> 00:34:08,079
statistics all the important sciency

902
00:34:14,389 --> 00:34:12,639
stuff that makes an experiment valid

903
00:34:16,149 --> 00:34:14,399
okay so that's population that's

904
00:34:20,230 --> 00:34:16,159
research approach now let's talk about

905
00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:22,950
so in our research we look at three

906
00:34:26,869 --> 00:34:25,200
separate arms and the first one i'm

907
00:34:27,990 --> 00:34:26,879
going to talk about let me talk about

908
00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:28,000
all of them and then we'll dive we'll do

909
00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:30,000
a deep dive into each one so the first

910
00:34:34,389 --> 00:34:31,679
one is what we call the information

911
00:34:36,790 --> 00:34:34,399
research arm and the primary question

912
00:34:39,589 --> 00:34:36,800
we're trying to answer here is can

913
00:34:41,669 --> 00:34:39,599
mediums really report accurate and

914
00:34:43,510 --> 00:34:41,679
specific information about the about the

915
00:34:45,669 --> 00:34:43,520
dead

916
00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:45,679
the next is what we call the operations

917
00:34:50,069 --> 00:34:48,240
arm and christine simms more hinted at

918
00:34:51,669 --> 00:34:50,079
these various pre-focused process

919
00:34:53,909 --> 00:34:51,679
focused

920
00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:53,919
types of research we use slightly

921
00:34:56,869 --> 00:34:54,960
different nomenclature but it's

922
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:56,879
basically the same thing so operations

923
00:35:01,910 --> 00:34:59,760
research can mediums provide insight

924
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:01,920
into the survival hypothesis and the

925
00:35:05,670 --> 00:35:04,000
nature of consciousness can we learn

926
00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:05,680
more about this relationship between

927
00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:08,480
mind and mind and brain

928
00:35:11,910 --> 00:35:09,760
through our study of mediums and

929
00:35:13,829 --> 00:35:11,920
mediumship

930
00:35:15,750 --> 00:35:13,839
and then finally we're very interested

931
00:35:17,829 --> 00:35:15,760
in applications research all this stuff

932
00:35:20,230 --> 00:35:17,839
is great and wonderful and we need to

933
00:35:21,589 --> 00:35:20,240
learn it but how does this help people

934
00:35:23,990 --> 00:35:21,599
at the end of the day

935
00:35:27,030 --> 00:35:24,000
we want to alleviate suffering right and

936
00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:27,040
we see that mediumship communication and

937
00:35:30,710 --> 00:35:29,200
after death communication and these

938
00:35:31,990 --> 00:35:30,720
kinds of interactions

939
00:35:32,870 --> 00:35:32,000
ultimately

940
00:35:37,190 --> 00:35:32,880
can

941
00:35:41,910 --> 00:35:38,870
so let's look at the information

942
00:35:44,069 --> 00:35:41,920
research arm really quick so in order to

943
00:35:46,710 --> 00:35:44,079
to um

944
00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:46,720
assess the accuracy of a medium

945
00:35:50,950 --> 00:35:49,200
statement it's actually really difficult

946
00:35:52,230 --> 00:35:50,960
um there's a lot of moving parts and

947
00:35:55,190 --> 00:35:52,240
there's a lot of things that have to be

948
00:35:57,510 --> 00:35:55,200
considered so you need very carefully a

949
00:35:59,270 --> 00:35:57,520
very carefully controlled experiment or

950
00:36:01,910 --> 00:35:59,280
protocol that lets you collect and

951
00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:01,920
analyze those data in meaningful ways

952
00:36:06,069 --> 00:36:03,839
right so again it's got to match the

953
00:36:08,790 --> 00:36:06,079
experiences of the of the medium it's

954
00:36:11,750 --> 00:36:08,800
going to be optimized for success

955
00:36:13,750 --> 00:36:11,760
while also have fit validity to the

956
00:36:15,589 --> 00:36:13,760
that's a term i use um it's got to fit

957
00:36:17,270 --> 00:36:15,599
the phenomenology

958
00:36:19,190 --> 00:36:17,280
um it's got to be and it's got to be

959
00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:19,200
scientifically valid and it has to

960
00:36:23,349 --> 00:36:20,880
properly control for lots of things

961
00:36:25,510 --> 00:36:23,359
including fraud which is something that

962
00:36:26,710 --> 00:36:25,520
a lot of other areas of research don't

963
00:36:28,230 --> 00:36:26,720
necessarily

964
00:36:29,829 --> 00:36:28,240
have to control for like there aren't

965
00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:29,839
too many people going into a drug trial

966
00:36:33,670 --> 00:36:32,480
going hey i'm going to fake out the drug

967
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:33,680
trial today

968
00:36:37,349 --> 00:36:35,440
um

969
00:36:39,270 --> 00:36:37,359
so i want to talk again just a little

970
00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:39,280
bit about the structure of a typical

971
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:41,280
reading right so we have our discarnate

972
00:36:45,190 --> 00:36:42,960
it says i so i'm a survive personality

973
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:45,200
without a body we have a mental medium i

974
00:36:48,550 --> 00:36:46,640
experience regular communication with

975
00:36:49,670 --> 00:36:48,560
discarnates and then provide messages to

976
00:36:52,390 --> 00:36:49,680
the sitters

977
00:36:53,990 --> 00:36:52,400
and then uh there's sitters who would

978
00:36:56,230 --> 00:36:54,000
like to communicate with the departed

979
00:36:58,790 --> 00:36:56,240
loved one and so there's a connection

980
00:37:00,630 --> 00:36:58,800
between the sitter and the discarnate

981
00:37:03,109 --> 00:37:00,640
now what's really important here is that

982
00:37:05,349 --> 00:37:03,119
with any type of human communication or

983
00:37:07,990 --> 00:37:05,359
any human endeavor basically people have

984
00:37:10,069 --> 00:37:08,000
to get along so there needs to be some

985
00:37:12,069 --> 00:37:10,079
sort of working relationship between the

986
00:37:14,470 --> 00:37:12,079
discarnate the mental medium the medium

987
00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:14,480
and the sitter or the reading itself is

988
00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:17,760
probably going to go south and um

989
00:37:21,910 --> 00:37:20,160
this is this dynamic is something that

990
00:37:24,470 --> 00:37:21,920
we're very interested in learning more

991
00:37:27,190 --> 00:37:24,480
about but it definitely seems to exist

992
00:37:30,069 --> 00:37:27,200
uh and it can definitely impact the

993
00:37:32,870 --> 00:37:30,079
quality of our reading

994
00:37:35,030 --> 00:37:32,880
so again how does how what's the the

995
00:37:38,710 --> 00:37:35,040
medium's experience

996
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:38,720
of a reading so again we have the center

997
00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:41,040
they ask a question the discarnate

998
00:37:44,550 --> 00:37:43,200
provides an answer there's a telepathic

999
00:37:45,829 --> 00:37:44,560
connection between the medium and the

1000
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:45,839
discarnate

1001
00:37:50,069 --> 00:37:47,760
there's a response a verbal response and

1002
00:37:51,670 --> 00:37:50,079
that verbal response is transmitted some

1003
00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:51,680
way shape or form maybe over the phone

1004
00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:54,240
these days or over skype or just spoken

1005
00:37:59,750 --> 00:37:56,640
uh to the sitter and then there's this

1006
00:38:02,230 --> 00:37:59,760
uh personal connection that's made

1007
00:38:03,510 --> 00:38:02,240
okay so if we want a controlled

1008
00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:03,520
experiment

1009
00:38:08,710 --> 00:38:05,760
that that covers all these bases that

1010
00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:10,630
collect the data in a meaningful way

1011
00:38:14,790 --> 00:38:12,320
about mediumship accuracy where do we

1012
00:38:15,990 --> 00:38:14,800
find that well fortunately one's been

1013
00:38:20,069 --> 00:38:16,000
published

1014
00:38:23,349 --> 00:38:20,079
this paper contemporary methods using

1015
00:38:26,310 --> 00:38:23,359
laboratory-based mediumship and it is uh

1016
00:38:28,790 --> 00:38:26,320
some have called it the gold standard of

1017
00:38:30,550 --> 00:38:28,800
mediumship accuracy testing uh other

1018
00:38:32,710 --> 00:38:30,560
people have not been as enthusiastic

1019
00:38:34,310 --> 00:38:32,720
about it for various reasons but that's

1020
00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:34,320
just the nature of science everything is

1021
00:38:38,550 --> 00:38:35,440
a debate

1022
00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:38,560
and uh but however uh in my opinion in

1023
00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:40,640
the opinion of others the protocols laid

1024
00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:43,680
out here are pretty solid

1025
00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:47,520
uh it is a fully masked reading protocol

1026
00:38:53,109 --> 00:38:49,920
which means there are multiple levels of

1027
00:38:55,390 --> 00:38:53,119
blinding so uh fully masked means that

1028
00:38:58,230 --> 00:38:55,400
the information is carefully

1029
00:39:00,630 --> 00:38:58,240
compartmentalized to prevent and for

1030
00:39:03,030 --> 00:39:00,640
information leakage that could impact

1031
00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:03,040
what the medium says or how the

1032
00:39:06,310 --> 00:39:04,079
uh

1033
00:39:08,870 --> 00:39:06,320
experimenters interact with the sitters

1034
00:39:11,190 --> 00:39:08,880
or how the center interprets and scores

1035
00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:11,200
their reading for accuracy so a fully

1036
00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:12,400
masked

1037
00:39:16,630 --> 00:39:14,320
triple quintiple i can never say the

1038
00:39:19,430 --> 00:39:16,640
word uh four levels of brine five levels

1039
00:39:21,829 --> 00:39:19,440
of blinding uh protocol addresses the

1040
00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:21,839
normal explanations for the source of a

1041
00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:24,240
medium's accurate readings

1042
00:39:28,069 --> 00:39:25,760
using this protocol we collected

1043
00:39:30,470 --> 00:39:28,079
accuracy data from 58 readings performed

1044
00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:30,480
by 20 pre-screened mediums

1045
00:39:34,630 --> 00:39:32,400
some of the features or highlights of

1046
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:34,640
this protocol is that all the readings

1047
00:39:39,589 --> 00:39:36,560
are done over the phone no one is ever

1048
00:39:40,950 --> 00:39:39,599
in the same room so there's reduces the

1049
00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:40,960
possibility of various kinds of

1050
00:39:44,390 --> 00:39:42,400
information leakage

1051
00:39:46,470 --> 00:39:44,400
uh there's we use what's called a

1052
00:39:48,550 --> 00:39:46,480
blinded proxy sitter so one of the

1053
00:39:49,990 --> 00:39:48,560
mediums is the media or sorry this

1054
00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:50,000
experimenter who's on the phone with the

1055
00:39:53,990 --> 00:39:50,960
medium

1056
00:39:56,390 --> 00:39:54,000
uh knows nothing about the discard it

1057
00:39:58,550 --> 00:39:56,400
has no details about the discarnate and

1058
00:39:59,829 --> 00:39:58,560
the medium never interacts directly with

1059
00:40:04,630 --> 00:39:59,839
the sitter

1060
00:40:07,030 --> 00:40:04,640
decoy readings so once the reading is

1061
00:40:09,270 --> 00:40:07,040
over the sitter will receive two

1062
00:40:11,349 --> 00:40:09,280
readings one of them is theirs and the

1063
00:40:13,270 --> 00:40:11,359
other one is a decoy they don't know

1064
00:40:15,750 --> 00:40:13,280
which one is which they're asked to

1065
00:40:18,309 --> 00:40:15,760
score both of them and return them this

1066
00:40:19,430 --> 00:40:18,319
deals with things like raider bias and

1067
00:40:20,230 --> 00:40:19,440
um

1068
00:40:21,829 --> 00:40:20,240
which

1069
00:40:24,390 --> 00:40:21,839
uh can

1070
00:40:26,150 --> 00:40:24,400
influence how a person rates a

1071
00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:26,160
particular reading when they know it's

1072
00:40:32,150 --> 00:40:28,240
for them so if a person tends to rate

1073
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:32,160
things hard they'll probably rate both

1074
00:40:35,589 --> 00:40:34,079
readings hard or if they're easygoing

1075
00:40:37,349 --> 00:40:35,599
they might they would be consistent in

1076
00:40:40,470 --> 00:40:37,359
that

1077
00:40:42,470 --> 00:40:40,480
um we ask specific questions of the

1078
00:40:44,550 --> 00:40:42,480
medium we want we need to know things

1079
00:40:47,349 --> 00:40:44,560
like cause of death hobbies and physical

1080
00:40:49,349 --> 00:40:47,359
description of the discarnate

1081
00:40:52,470 --> 00:40:49,359
uh we also provide a chance for

1082
00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:52,480
discarded motivation and allow the the

1083
00:40:57,430 --> 00:40:54,960
medium to provide just open-ended

1084
00:40:59,030 --> 00:40:57,440
messages to the sitter

1085
00:41:00,630 --> 00:40:59,040
uh the

1086
00:41:02,589 --> 00:41:00,640
the protocol requires three

1087
00:41:05,109 --> 00:41:02,599
experimenters to ensure proper

1088
00:41:08,390 --> 00:41:05,119
compartmentalization of all the data

1089
00:41:10,870 --> 00:41:08,400
and the sitters score readings um

1090
00:41:14,309 --> 00:41:11,910
sorry

1091
00:41:16,550 --> 00:41:14,319
the the sitters that score the the

1092
00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:16,560
sitters score the readings

1093
00:41:22,309 --> 00:41:18,960
uh and that's because no one else is

1094
00:41:24,630 --> 00:41:22,319
qualified to score that information

1095
00:41:26,710 --> 00:41:24,640
because because in a typical mediumship

1096
00:41:27,510 --> 00:41:26,720
reading the information can come through

1097
00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:27,520
as

1098
00:41:34,470 --> 00:41:31,280
inside jokes or symbols or signs or

1099
00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:34,480
stories that that would be impossible to

1100
00:41:38,630 --> 00:41:36,640
get for an individual to convey their

1101
00:41:41,829 --> 00:41:38,640
life history to a third independent

1102
00:41:44,309 --> 00:41:41,839
party to uh to judge and determine the

1103
00:41:46,790 --> 00:41:44,319
accuracy of any particular statements so

1104
00:41:48,470 --> 00:41:46,800
it's imperative that the sitters score

1105
00:41:51,589 --> 00:41:48,480
their own readings they just need to do

1106
00:41:53,670 --> 00:41:51,599
it in a way that's controlled

1107
00:41:57,030 --> 00:41:53,680
that doesn't have information leakage

1108
00:41:58,710 --> 00:41:57,040
and controls for greater bias

1109
00:42:00,390 --> 00:41:58,720
and we look at different kinds of

1110
00:42:03,109 --> 00:42:00,400
scoring so when a reading comes through

1111
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:03,119
it's itemized so we look at item by item

1112
00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:05,680
scoring we look at the whole score we

1113
00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:07,920
give us we ask the sitters to give a

1114
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:09,119
read a

1115
00:42:13,829 --> 00:42:11,440
a score for the entire reading and then

1116
00:42:16,390 --> 00:42:13,839
we ask them to do force choice which was

1117
00:42:18,150 --> 00:42:16,400
mentioned in an earlier talk where you

1118
00:42:20,390 --> 00:42:18,160
have two choices and you have to make

1119
00:42:22,710 --> 00:42:20,400
one or the other and in this case we we

1120
00:42:24,550 --> 00:42:22,720
make them do the fourth choice between

1121
00:42:26,470 --> 00:42:24,560
the decoy and the target they have to

1122
00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:26,480
pick one they don't know which one is

1123
00:42:31,750 --> 00:42:28,720
which and then we run the stats and

1124
00:42:34,309 --> 00:42:31,760
report all those data

1125
00:42:36,069 --> 00:42:34,319
this protocol is long and complicated

1126
00:42:38,230 --> 00:42:36,079
because it needs to be because if you

1127
00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:38,240
skimp on any of the pieces you will

1128
00:42:42,550 --> 00:42:40,480
break it and

1129
00:42:44,470 --> 00:42:42,560
things will become unblinded or there

1130
00:42:46,309 --> 00:42:44,480
will be information leakage or there

1131
00:42:49,109 --> 00:42:46,319
will be some sort of bias built into the

1132
00:42:51,430 --> 00:42:49,119
system so julius created this video it's

1133
00:42:54,870 --> 00:42:51,440
about 25 minutes 20 minutes or so that

1134
00:42:57,430 --> 00:42:54,880
explains that gives an overview of the

1135
00:42:59,109 --> 00:42:57,440
actual protocol in more detail and it's

1136
00:43:03,349 --> 00:42:59,119
up on youtube and i made a little tiny

1137
00:43:04,230 --> 00:43:03,359
url so it's tiny url slash wrc

1138
00:43:06,630 --> 00:43:04,240
air

1139
00:43:08,470 --> 00:43:06,640
winbridge research center anomalous

1140
00:43:10,069 --> 00:43:08,480
information reception

1141
00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:10,079
so i'll leave that there for another

1142
00:43:14,309 --> 00:43:12,400
second do some screen jack grabs

1143
00:43:15,190 --> 00:43:14,319
take a picture it's going away three two

1144
00:43:16,870 --> 00:43:15,200
one

1145
00:43:17,990 --> 00:43:16,880
okay

1146
00:43:19,349 --> 00:43:18,000
so

1147
00:43:22,309 --> 00:43:19,359
what do we find when we look at all

1148
00:43:28,790 --> 00:43:24,950
well um

1149
00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:28,800
for accuracy right when we look at um

1150
00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:30,319
when the blinded sitters score their

1151
00:43:33,510 --> 00:43:31,920
readings uh

1152
00:43:36,150 --> 00:43:33,520
we find that the readings that are

1153
00:43:39,190 --> 00:43:36,160
intended to them for them their item by

1154
00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:39,200
item scores are higher and as they they

1155
00:43:45,190 --> 00:43:41,040
they score their item by item scores

1156
00:43:46,710 --> 00:43:45,200
more accurate than their than the decoy

1157
00:43:48,710 --> 00:43:46,720
um

1158
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:48,720
the overall scores that they give to

1159
00:43:53,589 --> 00:43:51,440
their readings are higher in the actual

1160
00:43:55,589 --> 00:43:53,599
targets than in the decoys

1161
00:43:57,829 --> 00:43:55,599
and in the force choice

1162
00:44:00,230 --> 00:43:57,839
they pick their own reading more than

1163
00:44:01,829 --> 00:44:00,240
would be considered uh

1164
00:44:03,349 --> 00:44:01,839
by chance

1165
00:44:04,150 --> 00:44:03,359
uh

1166
00:44:05,430 --> 00:44:04,160
so

1167
00:44:08,790 --> 00:44:05,440
again all these results are

1168
00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:08,800
statistically significant

1169
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:11,280
so it's one thing when one lab does it

1170
00:44:15,349 --> 00:44:12,720
and we see

1171
00:44:17,670 --> 00:44:15,359
evidence for this ability of anomalous

1172
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:17,680
information reception or the reporting

1173
00:44:22,390 --> 00:44:20,160
of accurate and specific information

1174
00:44:24,550 --> 00:44:22,400
from mediums but it's better when more

1175
00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:24,560
labs do it and so one of the ways we

1176
00:44:28,790 --> 00:44:27,359
look at disparate or or not disparate

1177
00:44:30,790 --> 00:44:28,800
but similar studies from different

1178
00:44:33,510 --> 00:44:30,800
places like analysis mentioned is a

1179
00:44:35,109 --> 00:44:33,520
thing called a meta-analyses and again

1180
00:44:38,069 --> 00:44:35,119
they have pros and cons but this is a

1181
00:44:42,069 --> 00:44:38,079
recent meta-analyses uh uh run by

1182
00:44:43,510 --> 00:44:42,079
patrizio trisaldi and his team and um

1183
00:44:46,069 --> 00:44:43,520
they looked at anomalous information

1184
00:44:48,150 --> 00:44:46,079
reception specifically by mediums and

1185
00:44:51,109 --> 00:44:48,160
what they concluded was the results

1186
00:44:52,589 --> 00:44:51,119
indicate that some mediums can

1187
00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:52,599
uh

1188
00:44:56,870 --> 00:44:55,200
anomalously receive information about

1189
00:44:58,630 --> 00:44:56,880
deceased persons i would have said that

1190
00:45:01,190 --> 00:44:58,640
backwards

1191
00:45:03,430 --> 00:45:01,200
so can mediums really report accurate

1192
00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:03,440
and specific information about the dead

1193
00:45:07,910 --> 00:45:06,720
yes yes they can now that's a hard line

1194
00:45:09,349 --> 00:45:07,920
and i'm sure there's a bunch of people

1195
00:45:11,270 --> 00:45:09,359
out there rolling their eyes and being

1196
00:45:13,190 --> 00:45:11,280
upset about that answer but

1197
00:45:14,630 --> 00:45:13,200
you know there's there's only so much

1198
00:45:16,630 --> 00:45:14,640
data you can collect

1199
00:45:20,230 --> 00:45:16,640
um so

1200
00:45:21,910 --> 00:45:20,240
uh hi so does that actually answer the

1201
00:45:23,990 --> 00:45:21,920
survival question

1202
00:45:25,589 --> 00:45:24,000
no it doesn't just because we have

1203
00:45:28,069 --> 00:45:25,599
accurate information we still don't know

1204
00:45:29,349 --> 00:45:28,079
where it comes from

1205
00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:29,359
so

1206
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:32,240
information good operation can mediums

1207
00:45:35,109 --> 00:45:33,760
provide insight into the survival

1208
00:45:36,870 --> 00:45:35,119
hypothesis

1209
00:45:39,109 --> 00:45:36,880
so again we come back to the source of

1210
00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:39,119
psi problem or this survival

1211
00:45:49,990 --> 00:45:47,349
blockage or headway or or

1212
00:45:51,349 --> 00:45:50,000
impasse that's the word so in our

1213
00:45:53,430 --> 00:45:51,359
operations research we look at

1214
00:45:55,589 --> 00:45:53,440
phenomenology which is the experience of

1215
00:45:57,510 --> 00:45:55,599
both the sitters and the mediums and the

1216
00:45:58,870 --> 00:45:57,520
physiology of the medium so what's going

1217
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:58,880
on in their bodies what's going on in

1218
00:46:02,230 --> 00:46:00,480
their brains we also look at their

1219
00:46:03,670 --> 00:46:02,240
psychology i don't have time to talk

1220
00:46:05,829 --> 00:46:03,680
about psychology today and i kind of

1221
00:46:06,870 --> 00:46:05,839
feel like i might not even have time to

1222
00:46:08,470 --> 00:46:06,880
talk about these other things but i'm

1223
00:46:10,710 --> 00:46:08,480
going to burn through

1224
00:46:12,069 --> 00:46:10,720
um we're going to start with physiology

1225
00:46:13,829 --> 00:46:12,079
and we're talking about brains because

1226
00:46:16,390 --> 00:46:13,839
everyone's like ah brains it's so

1227
00:46:17,990 --> 00:46:16,400
sciencey so um

1228
00:46:23,829 --> 00:46:18,000
uh

1229
00:46:25,750 --> 00:46:23,839
researchers from the institute of

1230
00:46:28,630 --> 00:46:25,760
nomadic sciences the windbridge

1231
00:46:31,349 --> 00:46:28,640
institute and uc san diego got together

1232
00:46:33,589 --> 00:46:31,359
and we ran a study that looked at the

1233
00:46:34,870 --> 00:46:33,599
neural correlates associated with

1234
00:46:37,829 --> 00:46:34,880
subjective

1235
00:46:40,069 --> 00:46:37,839
uh experiences of communication with the

1236
00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:40,079
deceased right so what's going on in a

1237
00:46:43,430 --> 00:46:41,599
medium's brain when they perform a

1238
00:46:47,030 --> 00:46:43,440
mediumship reading

1239
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:47,040
and um we for this study uh the study

1240
00:46:50,790 --> 00:46:48,720
was actually conducted at the institute

1241
00:46:53,750 --> 00:46:50,800
of pneumatic sciences they had they have

1242
00:46:55,109 --> 00:46:53,760
a really great eeg set up and we have

1243
00:46:57,270 --> 00:46:55,119
mediums and then there was a lot of

1244
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:57,280
collaboration on the protocol

1245
00:47:01,190 --> 00:46:59,920
um so our currents were used in this

1246
00:47:02,950 --> 00:47:01,200
study

1247
00:47:05,430 --> 00:47:02,960
so basically

1248
00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:05,440
in one part of the study we asked the

1249
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:08,400
mediums to remember a story

1250
00:47:12,390 --> 00:47:10,480
uh listen to a story

1251
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:12,400
fabricate a story about a deceased

1252
00:47:16,950 --> 00:47:14,960
person and then actually perform

1253
00:47:18,870 --> 00:47:16,960
communication get in touch with a

1254
00:47:20,950 --> 00:47:18,880
deceased person of their choice and when

1255
00:47:23,910 --> 00:47:20,960
we look at the eeg for those data for

1256
00:47:26,549 --> 00:47:23,920
those different phenomena they look

1257
00:47:28,950 --> 00:47:26,559
different so the paper concludes the

1258
00:47:30,470 --> 00:47:28,960
study finding suggests that the

1259
00:47:33,190 --> 00:47:30,480
experience of communicating with the

1260
00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:33,200
deceased may be a distinct mental state

1261
00:47:37,190 --> 00:47:35,040
that is not consistent with brain

1262
00:47:39,910 --> 00:47:37,200
activity during ordinary thinking or

1263
00:47:41,990 --> 00:47:39,920
imagination so this is very important

1264
00:47:42,870 --> 00:47:42,000
this this shows that

1265
00:47:44,790 --> 00:47:42,880
psi

1266
00:47:48,549 --> 00:47:44,800
is happening in the brain and it's

1267
00:47:51,109 --> 00:47:48,559
different than making stuff up or lying

1268
00:47:52,549 --> 00:47:51,119
or recalling something that you that you

1269
00:47:54,710 --> 00:47:52,559
had read earlier

1270
00:47:56,790 --> 00:47:54,720
so does this get us to survival

1271
00:47:58,549 --> 00:47:56,800
nope not quite yet we're getting close

1272
00:48:00,390 --> 00:47:58,559
but not yet

1273
00:48:02,309 --> 00:48:00,400
what we would need to do in order to

1274
00:48:05,349 --> 00:48:02,319
think more about the survival question

1275
00:48:07,670 --> 00:48:05,359
is to compare the eeg or brain activity

1276
00:48:10,470 --> 00:48:07,680
of survival psi to the brain activity of

1277
00:48:13,109 --> 00:48:10,480
somatic psi however

1278
00:48:16,150 --> 00:48:13,119
that might not actually work because psi

1279
00:48:18,390 --> 00:48:16,160
is psi it's all telepathy right it's all

1280
00:48:20,630 --> 00:48:18,400
whatever's going on in there so

1281
00:48:23,190 --> 00:48:20,640
psi in the brain probably all looks the

1282
00:48:25,030 --> 00:48:23,200
same regardless of whether or not you're

1283
00:48:27,349 --> 00:48:25,040
getting the information from a dead

1284
00:48:29,829 --> 00:48:27,359
person or a living person so is it

1285
00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:29,839
really worth running the money and time

1286
00:48:33,670 --> 00:48:31,920
and effort to run this kind of a study

1287
00:48:35,270 --> 00:48:33,680
probably not for us somebody else will

1288
00:48:37,270 --> 00:48:35,280
probably pick it up and if we were to do

1289
00:48:40,069 --> 00:48:37,280
it we probably wouldn't use eeg because

1290
00:48:43,030 --> 00:48:40,079
eeg is problematic because if you speak

1291
00:48:45,270 --> 00:48:43,040
during eeg you generate a lot of

1292
00:48:46,790 --> 00:48:45,280
artifacts which can confound your data

1293
00:48:49,990 --> 00:48:46,800
so we would probably do a study like

1294
00:48:51,510 --> 00:48:50,000
this more with an fmri

1295
00:48:53,990 --> 00:48:51,520
okay so

1296
00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:54,000
phenomena so that was physiology so does

1297
00:48:58,069 --> 00:48:56,800
physiology help us get to the survival

1298
00:48:59,510 --> 00:48:58,079
hypothesis or the nature of

1299
00:49:01,990 --> 00:48:59,520
consciousness

1300
00:49:03,510 --> 00:49:02,000
in this context at this time we're not

1301
00:49:05,270 --> 00:49:03,520
quite there yet there's probably some

1302
00:49:06,470 --> 00:49:05,280
more things to look at

1303
00:49:08,230 --> 00:49:06,480
but the other thing we have is

1304
00:49:09,990 --> 00:49:08,240
phenomenology and again the

1305
00:49:13,270 --> 00:49:10,000
phenomenology is the

1306
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:13,280
is the is the lived experience of uh the

1307
00:49:17,430 --> 00:49:15,680
person doing the thing right so what is

1308
00:49:19,349 --> 00:49:17,440
it that mediums

1309
00:49:21,589 --> 00:49:19,359
uh

1310
00:49:23,990 --> 00:49:21,599
experience

1311
00:49:26,150 --> 00:49:24,000
so this is interesting in the early days

1312
00:49:29,430 --> 00:49:26,160
of mediumship back in the spr days the

1313
00:49:31,990 --> 00:49:29,440
early spr days and the aspr days uh

1314
00:49:34,630 --> 00:49:32,000
mediums uh the mediumship process was

1315
00:49:36,069 --> 00:49:34,640
much different the mediums were were in

1316
00:49:37,990 --> 00:49:36,079
full trans and they allowed it

1317
00:49:40,390 --> 00:49:38,000
controlled to speak through them and

1318
00:49:43,109 --> 00:49:40,400
when the the medium when the when the

1319
00:49:45,670 --> 00:49:43,119
event was over the sands was over uh

1320
00:49:47,430 --> 00:49:45,680
they didn't often have full recollection

1321
00:49:49,349 --> 00:49:47,440
of what had happened

1322
00:49:51,910 --> 00:49:49,359
however that's not the case with modern

1323
00:49:52,790 --> 00:49:51,920
american secular mental mediums

1324
00:49:55,910 --> 00:49:52,800
um

1325
00:49:58,230 --> 00:49:55,920
there is a slight altered state of

1326
00:49:59,829 --> 00:49:58,240
consciousness that exists

1327
00:50:03,190 --> 00:49:59,839
on a

1328
00:50:06,309 --> 00:50:03,200
continuum but they do not

1329
00:50:08,230 --> 00:50:06,319
enter into a full trance uh like earlier

1330
00:50:10,470 --> 00:50:08,240
mediums reported to d were reported to

1331
00:50:13,349 --> 00:50:10,480
do and they do maintain a level of

1332
00:50:15,750 --> 00:50:13,359
awareness during and after the event

1333
00:50:16,950 --> 00:50:15,760
after the reading

1334
00:50:18,549 --> 00:50:16,960
so

1335
00:50:21,510 --> 00:50:18,559
we learn that by looking at their

1336
00:50:23,670 --> 00:50:21,520
phenomenology and because of this change

1337
00:50:26,150 --> 00:50:23,680
in their phenomenology right we can we

1338
00:50:28,390 --> 00:50:26,160
can ask them about well you know we know

1339
00:50:30,309 --> 00:50:28,400
that they communicate with discarnates

1340
00:50:31,910 --> 00:50:30,319
and we also know that they communicate

1341
00:50:33,190 --> 00:50:31,920
with the living using psychic

1342
00:50:35,349 --> 00:50:33,200
functioning

1343
00:50:38,390 --> 00:50:35,359
we can ask a brand new question

1344
00:50:41,430 --> 00:50:38,400
can mediums tell the difference between

1345
00:50:43,349 --> 00:50:41,440
somatic psi and survival side so we ran

1346
00:50:44,470 --> 00:50:43,359
that study to look at it and what we

1347
00:50:46,309 --> 00:50:44,480
concluded

1348
00:50:48,790 --> 00:50:46,319
was that the data suggests that the

1349
00:50:50,950 --> 00:50:48,800
kerms have the ability to differentiate

1350
00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:50,960
between obstensible discarnate

1351
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:53,359
communication and the use of psi during

1352
00:50:58,309 --> 00:50:55,680
psychic readings

1353
00:51:01,270 --> 00:50:58,319
we then re-ran that study again this was

1354
00:51:03,829 --> 00:51:01,280
uh by shaw and rock and some other folks

1355
00:51:06,829 --> 00:51:03,839
that were involved in this this study um

1356
00:51:09,430 --> 00:51:06,839
where we blinded the mediums and we we

1357
00:51:11,190 --> 00:51:09,440
compartmentalized them and we we didn't

1358
00:51:12,950 --> 00:51:11,200
we had them both do both psychic

1359
00:51:13,750 --> 00:51:12,960
readings and

1360
00:51:15,990 --> 00:51:13,760
uh

1361
00:51:17,829 --> 00:51:16,000
and readings for just for just readings

1362
00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:17,839
for a sitter discarnate

1363
00:51:21,510 --> 00:51:19,680
and they didn't know which was which

1364
00:51:24,230 --> 00:51:21,520
however

1365
00:51:25,990 --> 00:51:24,240
they were able to figure it out 74 of

1366
00:51:26,870 --> 00:51:26,000
the time

1367
00:51:29,109 --> 00:51:26,880
so

1368
00:51:31,589 --> 00:51:29,119
uh and that's statistically significant

1369
00:51:33,430 --> 00:51:31,599
so under blinded conditions it seems

1370
00:51:35,349 --> 00:51:33,440
that mediums can tell the difference

1371
00:51:38,309 --> 00:51:35,359
between somatic psi

1372
00:51:40,790 --> 00:51:38,319
and survival psi

1373
00:51:43,109 --> 00:51:40,800
so where does that leave us well

1374
00:51:44,790 --> 00:51:43,119
phenomenology may end up giving us the

1375
00:51:46,790 --> 00:51:44,800
answers to

1376
00:51:48,470 --> 00:51:46,800
issues around the survival hypothesis

1377
00:51:51,030 --> 00:51:48,480
and could help us eventually break this

1378
00:51:52,870 --> 00:51:51,040
tie between survival psi and

1379
00:51:54,710 --> 00:51:52,880
um somatic side and in our opinion they

1380
00:51:56,150 --> 00:51:54,720
kind of already have and it's a dunned

1381
00:51:57,750 --> 00:51:56,160
issue and we don't want to talk about it

1382
00:51:59,589 --> 00:51:57,760
anymore um

1383
00:52:01,829 --> 00:51:59,599
so there's a great presentation that

1384
00:52:05,430 --> 00:52:01,839
julie did called living agent size dead

1385
00:52:08,230 --> 00:52:05,440
and it's on the ssc's uh uh youtube page

1386
00:52:10,710 --> 00:52:08,240
the ssc has a wonderful youtube page

1387
00:52:12,390 --> 00:52:10,720
they put all their uh presentations up

1388
00:52:13,750 --> 00:52:12,400
there from their conferences it's

1389
00:52:16,230 --> 00:52:13,760
awesome

1390
00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:16,240
um but this will raise a number of new

1391
00:52:20,630 --> 00:52:18,720
questions right so what experiments will

1392
00:52:22,870 --> 00:52:20,640
need to be run to refute the data that

1393
00:52:25,270 --> 00:52:22,880
support the existence of an afterlife

1394
00:52:27,910 --> 00:52:25,280
what is the level of data required to

1395
00:52:31,829 --> 00:52:27,920
alter or change the position of someone

1396
00:52:33,829 --> 00:52:31,839
who rejects the survival hypothesis

1397
00:52:35,829 --> 00:52:33,839
now that we have some type of after life

1398
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:35,839
after death it's been established in

1399
00:52:39,990 --> 00:52:37,760
some way how will people what will

1400
00:52:43,270 --> 00:52:40,000
people do with that information

1401
00:52:48,390 --> 00:52:46,390
so where does all this leave us uh oh

1402
00:52:50,230 --> 00:52:48,400
sorry so this brings us to application

1403
00:52:51,829 --> 00:52:50,240
and i'll just be super quick about this

1404
00:52:54,069 --> 00:52:51,839
so um

1405
00:52:56,549 --> 00:52:54,079
we have we have accurate information we

1406
00:52:57,910 --> 00:52:56,559
have the possibility of survival because

1407
00:53:01,910 --> 00:52:57,920
we've broken the

1408
00:53:06,710 --> 00:53:04,230
stalemate so can we actually use this

1409
00:53:08,710 --> 00:53:06,720
information to help people and so larry

1410
00:53:11,990 --> 00:53:08,720
dossey who is awesome wrote this book

1411
00:53:13,829 --> 00:53:12,000
called one mind which is awesome

1412
00:53:15,910 --> 00:53:13,839
said throughout human history the terror

1413
00:53:18,470 --> 00:53:15,920
of death's finality has caused more

1414
00:53:19,829 --> 00:53:18,480
suffering than all the physical disease

1415
00:53:21,910 --> 00:53:19,839
combined

1416
00:53:24,309 --> 00:53:21,920
and so every few years chapman

1417
00:53:28,630 --> 00:53:24,319
university runs a study on people's

1418
00:53:30,549 --> 00:53:28,640
fears and in 2018 people were 56.4 of

1419
00:53:33,589 --> 00:53:30,559
the people responding said that they

1420
00:53:36,549 --> 00:53:33,599
were afraid or very afraid of the death

1421
00:53:38,230 --> 00:53:36,559
of people that they loved and they were

1422
00:53:40,069 --> 00:53:38,240
about 30 of the people said they were

1423
00:53:43,829 --> 00:53:40,079
afraid or very afraid of their own

1424
00:53:46,470 --> 00:53:43,839
deaths so why is fear of death relevant

1425
00:53:49,030 --> 00:53:46,480
well it negatively can impact

1426
00:53:51,670 --> 00:53:49,040
end-of-life care decisions it can result

1427
00:53:54,069 --> 00:53:51,680
in unnecessary suffering it can

1428
00:53:55,510 --> 00:53:54,079
increase anxiety for both the dying and

1429
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:55,520
their families

1430
00:53:59,990 --> 00:53:57,280
so we became interested in this idea of

1431
00:54:02,870 --> 00:54:00,000
how mediumship could help alleviate not

1432
00:54:05,589 --> 00:54:02,880
only uh fear of death but also a

1433
00:54:07,270 --> 00:54:05,599
traumatic grief and so we ran a series

1434
00:54:09,349 --> 00:54:07,280
of preliminary studies that we published

1435
00:54:11,349 --> 00:54:09,359
in a journal called omega this was back

1436
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:11,359
in 14 and 15 and we're continuing more

1437
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:13,680
work on this now and what we found in a

1438
00:54:18,950 --> 00:54:17,760
retrospective uh survey is that yes when

1439
00:54:21,190 --> 00:54:18,960
people

1440
00:54:24,549 --> 00:54:21,200
got a mediumship reading

1441
00:54:27,030 --> 00:54:24,559
uh their level of grief did decrease and

1442
00:54:28,710 --> 00:54:27,040
we can't run statistics on this for a

1443
00:54:29,990 --> 00:54:28,720
bunch of technical reasons like it's a

1444
00:54:31,750 --> 00:54:30,000
retroactive study and you really

1445
00:54:34,470 --> 00:54:31,760
shouldn't run stats on those but you can

1446
00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:34,480
see that there's a a marked difference a

1447
00:54:38,549 --> 00:54:36,240
marked decline

1448
00:54:40,630 --> 00:54:38,559
reduction in their grief from the

1449
00:54:43,589 --> 00:54:40,640
reading condition the other condition is

1450
00:54:45,829 --> 00:54:43,599
an mhp or mental health provider and you

1451
00:54:47,430 --> 00:54:45,839
also see a reduction but that reduction

1452
00:54:50,069 --> 00:54:47,440
isn't as great now this gets a little

1453
00:54:51,510 --> 00:54:50,079
confounded because the the mh the the

1454
00:54:53,670 --> 00:54:51,520
people that within the mhp is a little

1455
00:54:55,750 --> 00:54:53,680
bit higher but this is really promising

1456
00:54:57,349 --> 00:54:55,760
and interesting data what's even more

1457
00:54:59,510 --> 00:54:57,359
interesting are the comments that people

1458
00:55:00,470 --> 00:54:59,520
made in the survey that we gave them so

1459
00:55:02,549 --> 00:55:00,480
i'm just going to run through these

1460
00:55:04,630 --> 00:55:02,559
quickly i felt better after being with

1461
00:55:06,870 --> 00:55:04,640
the medium she stated things to me that

1462
00:55:08,870 --> 00:55:06,880
were personal from my dad that no social

1463
00:55:11,349 --> 00:55:08,880
worker could have done

1464
00:55:14,870 --> 00:55:11,359
the medium reached my heart the social

1465
00:55:20,549 --> 00:55:17,349
when my first mental health provider

1466
00:55:23,030 --> 00:55:20,559
negated the reading i had with a medium

1467
00:55:25,030 --> 00:55:23,040
i switched to someone who understood and

1468
00:55:27,349 --> 00:55:25,040
supported my new reality and therefore

1469
00:55:29,829 --> 00:55:27,359
received much more constructive help

1470
00:55:31,990 --> 00:55:29,839
with my grief

1471
00:55:33,430 --> 00:55:32,000
the combination of assistance from an

1472
00:55:36,950 --> 00:55:33,440
mhp

1473
00:55:37,990 --> 00:55:36,960
and a medium is of significant value

1474
00:55:45,589 --> 00:55:38,000
and

1475
00:55:47,510 --> 00:55:45,599
life on the other side

1476
00:55:50,150 --> 00:55:47,520
these are really powerful statements

1477
00:55:51,750 --> 00:55:50,160
from people that are grieving and found

1478
00:55:52,549 --> 00:55:51,760
some level of relief

1479
00:55:55,829 --> 00:55:52,559
through

1480
00:55:58,309 --> 00:55:55,839
the process of mediumship

1481
00:56:00,230 --> 00:55:58,319
so can mediumship help people seems like

1482
00:56:01,670 --> 00:56:00,240
it can we need to do some more work on

1483
00:56:02,710 --> 00:56:01,680
that i'm not saying anyone who's

1484
00:56:04,309 --> 00:56:02,720
grieving should go out and get a

1485
00:56:06,069 --> 00:56:04,319
mediumship reading

1486
00:56:08,069 --> 00:56:06,079
there's information on our website that

1487
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:08,079
you should look at on wimridge.org if

1488
00:56:11,109 --> 00:56:08,880
you're thinking about getting a

1489
00:56:12,549 --> 00:56:11,119
mediumship reading again i am not a

1490
00:56:15,430 --> 00:56:12,559
healthcare provider and i am not

1491
00:56:18,390 --> 00:56:15,440
recommending this as a general uh

1492
00:56:19,510 --> 00:56:18,400
treatment for grief

1493
00:56:21,910 --> 00:56:19,520
so

1494
00:56:22,710 --> 00:56:21,920
let's wrap this up what do we know

1495
00:56:25,109 --> 00:56:22,720
yeah

1496
00:56:27,750 --> 00:56:25,119
let's wrap this up we have questions

1497
00:56:29,109 --> 00:56:27,760
here i got one more i got one more slide

1498
00:56:31,750 --> 00:56:29,119
okay here we go

1499
00:56:33,750 --> 00:56:31,760
here it is so mediumship readings appear

1500
00:56:35,190 --> 00:56:33,760
to involve three people and they all

1501
00:56:37,430 --> 00:56:35,200
need to work together

1502
00:56:39,589 --> 00:56:37,440
uh some mediums can report accurate and

1503
00:56:41,109 --> 00:56:39,599
specific information about the deceased

1504
00:56:42,829 --> 00:56:41,119
um

1505
00:56:48,470 --> 00:56:42,839
uh

1506
00:56:51,109 --> 00:56:48,480
somatic side versus survival side debate

1507
00:56:53,670 --> 00:56:51,119
uh mediums have a unique psychology we

1508
00:56:56,470 --> 00:56:53,680
didn't talk about this but uh there's we

1509
00:56:58,230 --> 00:56:56,480
published on it uh eeg show that the

1510
00:57:00,309 --> 00:56:58,240
brain states and mediums may be

1511
00:57:03,190 --> 00:57:00,319
different than in a medium state than

1512
00:57:04,390 --> 00:57:03,200
other states um surveys find that

1513
00:57:06,470 --> 00:57:04,400
demonstrated that mediums have

1514
00:57:08,710 --> 00:57:06,480
significantly higher instances of

1515
00:57:10,789 --> 00:57:08,720
autoimmune diseases and significantly

1516
00:57:13,430 --> 00:57:10,799
higher general disease burden than

1517
00:57:15,430 --> 00:57:13,440
people who identify as non-mediums

1518
00:57:17,670 --> 00:57:15,440
examining various components of a

1519
00:57:20,710 --> 00:57:17,680
medium's blood as well as other basic

1520
00:57:23,349 --> 00:57:20,720
physiological measures showed no

1521
00:57:25,349 --> 00:57:23,359
changes were present when comparing a

1522
00:57:27,109 --> 00:57:25,359
reading to a control condition uh

1523
00:57:29,030 --> 00:57:27,119
preliminary research has demonstrated

1524
00:57:30,870 --> 00:57:29,040
that receiving a mediumship reading may

1525
00:57:33,510 --> 00:57:30,880
have a positive effect a healing effect

1526
00:57:35,589 --> 00:57:33,520
for grieving and using fully blended

1527
00:57:38,150 --> 00:57:35,599
protocols similar to that employed to

1528
00:57:41,349 --> 00:57:38,160
test mediumship accuracy during readings

1529
00:57:43,589 --> 00:57:41,359
of deceased people exploratory research

1530
00:57:46,630 --> 00:57:43,599
has demonstrated that some mediums can

1531
00:57:50,150 --> 00:57:46,640
report accurate and specific information

1532
00:57:52,230 --> 00:57:50,160
about deceased companion animals

1533
00:57:53,750 --> 00:57:52,240
please visit our website windbridge.org

1534
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:53,760
you can join our email list you get

1535
00:57:58,150 --> 00:57:55,680
access to all of our free educational

1536
00:57:59,510 --> 00:57:58,160
materials we do not have memberships or

1537
00:58:01,270 --> 00:57:59,520
membership levels or any of that kind of

1538
00:58:03,109 --> 00:58:01,280
stuff everything we produce is open

1539
00:58:04,549 --> 00:58:03,119
access and open source if you find it

1540
00:58:05,829 --> 00:58:04,559
useful and would like to make a donation

1541
00:58:09,589 --> 00:58:05,839
to support our work that would be

1542
00:58:33,750 --> 00:58:09,599
wonderful not required

1543
00:58:37,510 --> 00:58:35,829
all right thank you guys for

1544
00:58:39,109 --> 00:58:37,520
we will be bringing mark back up on

1545
00:58:46,789 --> 00:58:39,119
stage for some questions mark that was a

1546
00:58:50,950 --> 00:58:48,870
hey justin uh i don't think you and i

1547
00:58:53,030 --> 00:58:50,960
have ever met have we met

1548
00:58:54,950 --> 00:58:53,040
no i don't believe so but uh it's great

1549
00:58:56,470 --> 00:58:54,960
to meet you now thanks lovely to meet

1550
00:58:57,670 --> 00:58:56,480
you as well thank you for the wonderful

1551
00:59:00,150 --> 00:58:57,680
introduction and for hosting this

1552
00:59:04,069 --> 00:59:01,990
we have some questions coming in uh but

1553
00:59:06,549 --> 00:59:04,079
if you wanted to say anything post post

1554
00:59:08,630 --> 00:59:06,559
presentation please do uh no i think

1555
00:59:12,069 --> 00:59:08,640
that was um over

1556
00:59:14,150 --> 00:59:12,079
overly robust to that presentation uh uh

1557
00:59:16,789 --> 00:59:14,160
and it was a little specific to last

1558
00:59:18,390 --> 00:59:16,799
year's conference uh but beyond that you

1559
00:59:19,750 --> 00:59:18,400
know i'm willing to try to answer any

1560
00:59:21,109 --> 00:59:19,760
questions

1561
00:59:23,430 --> 00:59:21,119
certainly well we already have a few

1562
00:59:26,390 --> 00:59:23,440
coming in but i invite everyone to use

1563
00:59:28,309 --> 00:59:26,400
the uh the q a feature that analisa and

1564
00:59:29,910 --> 00:59:28,319
ramses described in the chat if you have

1565
00:59:33,670 --> 00:59:29,920
any additional questions

1566
00:59:35,349 --> 00:59:33,680
so our first question is from john

1567
00:59:36,710 --> 00:59:35,359
uh he comments that he's been impressed

1568
00:59:38,950 --> 00:59:36,720
by the evolution of discarnate's

1569
00:59:40,870 --> 00:59:38,960
experience over the past few years

1570
00:59:43,349 --> 00:59:40,880
and he asked if you have a metric that

1571
00:59:45,349 --> 00:59:43,359
measures sitters scoring the same

1572
00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:45,359
discarnates over years by various

1573
00:59:50,150 --> 00:59:47,280
mediums

1574
00:59:52,309 --> 00:59:50,160
uh it's an interesting question uh no we

1575
00:59:55,030 --> 00:59:52,319
actually then for a number of reasons we

1576
00:59:57,270 --> 00:59:55,040
actually don't support the idea of

1577
01:00:01,030 --> 00:59:57,280
people getting multiple readings with

1578
01:00:05,910 --> 01:00:03,750
so this isn't anything that we would do

1579
01:00:08,549 --> 01:00:05,920
specifically i don't know if anybody

1580
01:00:10,710 --> 01:00:08,559
else has taken that on

1581
01:00:13,349 --> 01:00:10,720
okay would you mind elaborating why

1582
01:00:15,510 --> 01:00:13,359
don't you recommend that well a lot of

1583
01:00:18,470 --> 01:00:15,520
it has to do with uh um there's well

1584
01:00:22,150 --> 01:00:18,480
there's a couple of pieces one um from

1585
01:00:23,910 --> 01:00:22,160
our perspective a mediumship um

1586
01:00:26,950 --> 01:00:23,920
a mediumship reading is actually a

1587
01:00:28,789 --> 01:00:26,960
therapeutic intervention right so you go

1588
01:00:31,270 --> 01:00:28,799
you get what you can from it you

1589
01:00:33,190 --> 01:00:31,280
hopefully have a positive experience you

1590
01:00:35,030 --> 01:00:33,200
integrate that and then you move on

1591
01:00:37,270 --> 01:00:35,040
right you don't need and

1592
01:00:40,150 --> 01:00:37,280
and to continue to do it could lead to

1593
01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:40,160
things like addiction or um

1594
01:00:44,390 --> 01:00:42,400
uh not moving on with your life or not

1595
01:00:48,230 --> 01:00:44,400
allowing the discarnate to move on with

1596
01:00:50,950 --> 01:00:48,240
their afterlife right uh uh

1597
01:00:53,030 --> 01:00:50,960
so there's that piece and

1598
01:00:55,349 --> 01:00:53,040
um also there's the issue of discarnate

1599
01:00:57,109 --> 01:00:55,359
motivation which also um once you've had

1600
01:00:58,950 --> 01:00:57,119
a reading with a discarnate and the

1601
01:01:01,670 --> 01:00:58,960
discarnates told you all the things that

1602
01:01:04,230 --> 01:01:01,680
they have to say um they probably don't

1603
01:01:05,829 --> 01:01:04,240
need to come back over and over again

1604
01:01:10,789 --> 01:01:05,839
okay that definitely makes sense thank

1605
01:01:13,349 --> 01:01:12,230
all right we actually have one from anna

1606
01:01:14,150 --> 01:01:13,359
lisa

1607
01:01:15,270 --> 01:01:14,160
oh

1608
01:01:16,549 --> 01:01:15,280
she's tough

1609
01:01:18,069 --> 01:01:16,559
yes

1610
01:01:19,670 --> 01:01:18,079
could you tell us a little bit about

1611
01:01:20,710 --> 01:01:19,680
what you were presenting at this year's

1612
01:01:22,630 --> 01:01:20,720
conference

1613
01:01:24,470 --> 01:01:22,640
oh um well

1614
01:01:26,390 --> 01:01:24,480
there's the stuff that i'm presenting

1615
01:01:29,190 --> 01:01:26,400
and then julie has a short

1616
01:01:31,030 --> 01:01:29,200
talk as well um the material i'm going

1617
01:01:33,910 --> 01:01:31,040
to present has nothing to do with

1618
01:01:37,109 --> 01:01:33,920
mediumship per se it's um

1619
01:01:40,309 --> 01:01:37,119
i'm using artificial intelligence

1620
01:01:41,190 --> 01:01:40,319
systems and machine learning systems

1621
01:01:44,069 --> 01:01:41,200
to

1622
01:01:45,630 --> 01:01:44,079
facilitate communication and interaction

1623
01:01:47,990 --> 01:01:45,640
with um

1624
01:01:51,190 --> 01:01:48,000
non-corporeal consciousnesses which may

1625
01:01:54,230 --> 01:01:51,200
or may not include the deceased but

1626
01:01:56,549 --> 01:01:54,240
that's a bigger topic uh julie's got an

1627
01:01:58,950 --> 01:01:56,559
interesting um presentation it's a short

1628
01:02:01,829 --> 01:01:58,960
poster presentation uh about the

1629
01:02:04,390 --> 01:02:01,839
relationship between mediumship accuracy

1630
01:02:07,589 --> 01:02:04,400
and mindfulness practices so i'm not

1631
01:02:09,029 --> 01:02:07,599
going to give that uh story away but

1632
01:02:19,510 --> 01:02:09,039
that's that should be an interesting

1633
01:02:25,109 --> 01:02:23,190
all right we have one from dimitri

1634
01:02:27,190 --> 01:02:25,119
how often is information transmitted

1635
01:02:28,950 --> 01:02:27,200
from the discarnate that was unknown to

1636
01:02:30,710 --> 01:02:28,960
the sitter but later proven to be

1637
01:02:32,309 --> 01:02:30,720
accurate

1638
01:02:34,069 --> 01:02:32,319
um you know we don't have a specific

1639
01:02:35,670 --> 01:02:34,079
metric on that that's not something we

1640
01:02:37,990 --> 01:02:35,680
we've like

1641
01:02:40,150 --> 01:02:38,000
like tried to measure but it's

1642
01:02:42,390 --> 01:02:40,160
anecdotally that seems to happen fairly

1643
01:02:44,230 --> 01:02:42,400
often

1644
01:02:45,829 --> 01:02:44,240
not understandable i'd imagine to be pin

1645
01:02:48,549 --> 01:02:45,839
it'd be challenging to pin down a

1646
01:02:50,390 --> 01:02:48,559
specific metric on that yeah you know

1647
01:02:52,470 --> 01:02:50,400
exactly how you would measure that and

1648
01:02:53,910 --> 01:02:52,480
all that kind of stuff so um there's a

1649
01:02:56,150 --> 01:02:53,920
lot of there's a lot of these like

1650
01:02:58,150 --> 01:02:56,160
deeper level questions that are really

1651
01:03:00,390 --> 01:02:58,160
interesting and we would love to try to

1652
01:03:02,710 --> 01:03:00,400
answer and push forward but the bottom

1653
01:03:05,190 --> 01:03:02,720
line is there's just uh they're

1654
01:03:06,230 --> 01:03:05,200
difficult to answer and two there's just

1655
01:03:12,710 --> 01:03:06,240
so

1656
01:03:15,029 --> 01:03:12,720
we do has to be

1657
01:03:17,270 --> 01:03:15,039
high impact high level what i consider

1658
01:03:19,910 --> 01:03:17,280
to be high level and high impact right

1659
01:03:22,150 --> 01:03:19,920
so while this is an interesting question

1660
01:03:24,870 --> 01:03:22,160
to me that's sort of like

1661
01:03:26,870 --> 01:03:24,880
it's a little bit below and in the weeds

1662
01:03:28,630 --> 01:03:26,880
for us um

1663
01:03:30,309 --> 01:03:28,640
but maybe that's something like a grad

1664
01:03:34,309 --> 01:03:30,319
student might want to take on or

1665
01:03:37,990 --> 01:03:35,910
well message to all the grad students in

1666
01:03:39,670 --> 01:03:38,000
the chat take some notes

1667
01:03:41,670 --> 01:03:39,680
yeah go find some funding and do some

1668
01:03:44,069 --> 01:03:41,680
mediumship research and don't get thrown

1669
01:03:45,190 --> 01:03:44,079
out of grad stool for doing mediumship

1670
01:03:47,190 --> 01:03:45,200
research

1671
01:03:49,430 --> 01:03:47,200
in somebody else's lab

1672
01:03:51,109 --> 01:03:49,440
in somebody else's university because

1673
01:03:52,390 --> 01:03:51,119
good luck with that

1674
01:03:57,190 --> 01:03:52,400
all right

1675
01:04:01,190 --> 01:03:59,349
we have one from michael um he believes

1676
01:04:02,870 --> 01:04:01,200
that he might have missed a portion he

1677
01:04:06,150 --> 01:04:02,880
was curious what the difference between

1678
01:04:08,630 --> 01:04:06,160
survival psi and somatic sci is

1679
01:04:11,510 --> 01:04:08,640
would you mind clarifying sure somatic

1680
01:04:14,390 --> 01:04:11,520
psi is a term uh that

1681
01:04:17,190 --> 01:04:14,400
julie beischel and dr adam rock coined

1682
01:04:20,630 --> 01:04:17,200
and it's specific about the psychic

1683
01:04:21,670 --> 01:04:20,640
exchange of information between a uh

1684
01:04:23,829 --> 01:04:21,680
medium

1685
01:04:26,549 --> 01:04:23,839
and a discarnate so

1686
01:04:29,990 --> 01:04:26,559
uh sorry that's that's um

1687
01:04:31,510 --> 01:04:30,000
sorry that's survival sigh right so uh

1688
01:04:33,750 --> 01:04:31,520
when what a medium is getting

1689
01:04:36,710 --> 01:04:33,760
information directly from a discarnate

1690
01:04:38,150 --> 01:04:36,720
when a medium is getting information

1691
01:04:41,349 --> 01:04:38,160
from a

1692
01:04:44,309 --> 01:04:41,359
uh sitter or some other non-like living

1693
01:04:45,750 --> 01:04:44,319
agent source that's called somatic sci

1694
01:04:47,589 --> 01:04:45,760
and it's

1695
01:04:49,190 --> 01:04:47,599
uh

1696
01:04:52,549 --> 01:04:49,200
it was used to differentiate between

1697
01:04:54,870 --> 01:04:52,559
this larger sort of living age inside uh

1698
01:04:58,870 --> 01:04:54,880
umbrella that people talk about

1699
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:04,390
sounds good

1700
01:05:07,829 --> 01:05:05,990
all right from paul we have would you

1701
01:05:10,549 --> 01:05:07,839
mind discussing the possibility of the

1702
01:05:12,150 --> 01:05:10,559
placebo effect of a person believing in

1703
01:05:12,950 --> 01:05:12,160
mediumship

1704
01:05:15,349 --> 01:05:12,960
do

1705
01:05:17,829 --> 01:05:15,359
to your research as being influential in

1706
01:05:19,990 --> 01:05:17,839
the therapeutic outcome

1707
01:05:23,670 --> 01:05:20,000
uh sure placebo effect is a real thing

1708
01:05:26,549 --> 01:05:23,680
we call it spontaneous healing um

1709
01:05:29,029 --> 01:05:26,559
uh yeah i mean if uh if

1710
01:05:32,150 --> 01:05:29,039
absolutely the role of belief is

1711
01:05:34,470 --> 01:05:32,160
critical actually to a lot of uh

1712
01:05:35,430 --> 01:05:34,480
clinical interventions whether they be

1713
01:05:36,470 --> 01:05:35,440
um

1714
01:05:38,549 --> 01:05:36,480
uh

1715
01:05:41,430 --> 01:05:38,559
pharmaceutical or

1716
01:05:43,510 --> 01:05:41,440
psychotherapeutic um

1717
01:05:44,230 --> 01:05:43,520
yeah so

1718
01:05:51,349 --> 01:05:44,240
i

1719
01:05:53,190 --> 01:05:51,359
uh

1720
01:05:55,109 --> 01:05:53,200
is it possible that the placebo effect

1721
01:05:57,430 --> 01:05:55,119
is taking place absolutely do i consider

1722
01:06:04,549 --> 01:05:57,440
that a problem absolutely not

1723
01:06:08,309 --> 01:06:06,630
all right from steve we have what do you

1724
01:06:10,710 --> 01:06:08,319
attribute the drop off of physical

1725
01:06:12,069 --> 01:06:10,720
mediumship phenomena over the last 100

1726
01:06:13,990 --> 01:06:12,079
or so years

1727
01:06:15,270 --> 01:06:14,000
um they mentioned that perhaps it might

1728
01:06:16,390 --> 01:06:15,280
be our tech

1729
01:06:18,870 --> 01:06:16,400
nowadays

1730
01:06:20,789 --> 01:06:18,880
um

1731
01:06:23,029 --> 01:06:20,799
one might think non-intrusive means for

1732
01:06:24,710 --> 01:06:23,039
study are now prevalent not quite sure

1733
01:06:26,309 --> 01:06:24,720
what the end there means but uh what do

1734
01:06:27,829 --> 01:06:26,319
you attribute to the drop-off of

1735
01:06:28,870 --> 01:06:27,839
physical mediumship over the last

1736
01:06:31,349 --> 01:06:28,880
hundred years

1737
01:06:33,270 --> 01:06:31,359
um well i don't know actually i have no

1738
01:06:35,029 --> 01:06:33,280
idea um

1739
01:06:38,390 --> 01:06:35,039
uh that's it's

1740
01:06:39,270 --> 01:06:38,400
it certainly has dropped off but

1741
01:06:40,789 --> 01:06:39,280
um

1742
01:06:41,829 --> 01:06:40,799
there are still pockets of physical

1743
01:06:43,430 --> 01:06:41,839
mediumship

1744
01:06:45,750 --> 01:06:43,440
taking place all around the world it's

1745
01:06:47,430 --> 01:06:45,760
not so much it's is a bit in the u.s but

1746
01:06:50,950 --> 01:06:47,440
it's it's much more prevalent outside

1747
01:06:54,549 --> 01:06:50,960
the u.s at least that's my impression um

1748
01:06:58,150 --> 01:06:54,559
uh you know i don't know it's a

1749
01:07:02,069 --> 01:07:00,710
in terms of non-intrusive means to study

1750
01:07:04,950 --> 01:07:02,079
um

1751
01:07:07,510 --> 01:07:04,960
yes the the technology is getting better

1752
01:07:09,589 --> 01:07:07,520
but in my opinion it's still not there i

1753
01:07:11,910 --> 01:07:09,599
uh i started doing physical mediumship

1754
01:07:14,950 --> 01:07:11,920
research uh you know a number of years

1755
01:07:17,349 --> 01:07:14,960
ago and decided to put it on the shelf

1756
01:07:19,270 --> 01:07:17,359
because um

1757
01:07:20,950 --> 01:07:19,280
uh in order to really answer the

1758
01:07:22,950 --> 01:07:20,960
fundamental questions about physical

1759
01:07:25,750 --> 01:07:22,960
mediumship we would need to do things

1760
01:07:28,470 --> 01:07:25,760
that would violate the um the

1761
01:07:30,309 --> 01:07:28,480
requirements of the participants

1762
01:07:33,109 --> 01:07:30,319
and to me as i talked about we want to

1763
01:07:35,910 --> 01:07:33,119
honor those requirements the best we can

1764
01:07:37,990 --> 01:07:35,920
and so until we have a better

1765
01:07:40,309 --> 01:07:38,000
understanding of

1766
01:07:43,109 --> 01:07:40,319
psychic functioning and how psychic

1767
01:07:46,069 --> 01:07:43,119
phenomena manifest and we have better

1768
01:07:47,910 --> 01:07:46,079
ways to measure that um i personally am

1769
01:07:49,270 --> 01:07:47,920
holding off on any more

1770
01:07:51,910 --> 01:07:49,280
detailed

1771
01:07:53,670 --> 01:07:51,920
empirical research on physical mediums

1772
01:07:55,670 --> 01:07:53,680
and i would suggest other researchers to

1773
01:07:58,069 --> 01:07:55,680
do the same i don't i don't think it's a

1774
01:07:59,349 --> 01:07:58,079
i mentioned this earlier in a in a room

1775
01:08:01,349 --> 01:07:59,359
uh you know there's things about

1776
01:08:02,549 --> 01:08:01,359
physical mediumship for example that

1777
01:08:05,510 --> 01:08:02,559
require

1778
01:08:08,390 --> 01:08:05,520
um quiet environments enclosed

1779
01:08:09,990 --> 01:08:08,400
environments uh personal space those

1780
01:08:11,789 --> 01:08:10,000
kinds of things and then there's the

1781
01:08:14,789 --> 01:08:11,799
requirements of

1782
01:08:16,870 --> 01:08:14,799
materialist-based uh empirical research

1783
01:08:19,349 --> 01:08:16,880
right and

1784
01:08:21,829 --> 01:08:19,359
that is complete and utter transparency

1785
01:08:23,590 --> 01:08:21,839
right and those two things don't in my

1786
01:08:25,030 --> 01:08:23,600
opinion necessarily sit comfortably

1787
01:08:26,070 --> 01:08:25,040
together

1788
01:08:27,590 --> 01:08:26,080
yet

1789
01:08:29,510 --> 01:08:27,600
so

1790
01:08:31,510 --> 01:08:29,520
i would hold off on physical mediumship

1791
01:08:34,070 --> 01:08:31,520
research empirical physical mediumship

1792
01:08:36,950 --> 01:08:34,080
research good to know i appreciate the

1793
01:08:42,149 --> 01:08:38,950
i am that is not a popular opinion i

1794
01:08:46,149 --> 01:08:42,159
might add i am in the majority minority

1795
01:08:47,669 --> 01:08:46,159
of researchers that feel that way

1796
01:08:49,910 --> 01:08:47,679
let's see we have another question from

1797
01:08:52,070 --> 01:08:49,920
paul it's uh is there any difference

1798
01:08:54,470 --> 01:08:52,080
that you can describe between discarnate

1799
01:08:55,990 --> 01:08:54,480
animals versus humans

1800
01:08:59,510 --> 01:08:56,000
um

1801
01:09:01,430 --> 01:08:59,520
no the experience that uh

1802
01:09:03,910 --> 01:09:01,440
yeah this is this is really interesting

1803
01:09:07,590 --> 01:09:03,920
the um the study of

1804
01:09:10,870 --> 01:09:07,600
non-human animal discarnates

1805
01:09:12,950 --> 01:09:10,880
it was actually really difficult to do

1806
01:09:14,630 --> 01:09:12,960
because

1807
01:09:16,550 --> 01:09:14,640
of the

1808
01:09:19,510 --> 01:09:16,560
deep emotional connection that many

1809
01:09:20,950 --> 01:09:19,520
people have to their companion animals

1810
01:09:23,749 --> 01:09:20,960
and so

1811
01:09:25,110 --> 01:09:23,759
providing readings for that population

1812
01:09:28,309 --> 01:09:25,120
became really

1813
01:09:29,910 --> 01:09:28,319
difficult because any error and

1814
01:09:31,349 --> 01:09:29,920
mediumship

1815
01:09:33,430 --> 01:09:31,359
readings have errors in them right

1816
01:09:34,390 --> 01:09:33,440
they're not all 100 accurate all the

1817
01:09:37,990 --> 01:09:34,400
time

1818
01:09:39,349 --> 01:09:38,000
um any minor error that might appear in

1819
01:09:42,550 --> 01:09:39,359
a test reading

1820
01:09:45,590 --> 01:09:42,560
was interpreted by the sitter as

1821
01:09:47,349 --> 01:09:45,600
some sort of um

1822
01:09:50,149 --> 01:09:47,359
disconnect between

1823
01:09:52,630 --> 01:09:50,159
them and their their deceased

1824
01:09:53,669 --> 01:09:52,640
companion animal and they took it really

1825
01:09:55,189 --> 01:09:53,679
hard

1826
01:09:56,870 --> 01:09:55,199
they were like oh i always used to pep

1827
01:09:59,430 --> 01:09:56,880
it on the ears but the

1828
01:10:01,590 --> 01:09:59,440
the medium said that they pet his you

1829
01:10:03,430 --> 01:10:01,600
know scratched his his haunches did i do

1830
01:10:04,870 --> 01:10:03,440
it wrong right like people were really

1831
01:10:06,790 --> 01:10:04,880
upset about

1832
01:10:09,110 --> 01:10:06,800
that kind of stuff so we had to stop

1833
01:10:12,149 --> 01:10:09,120
doing that research um

1834
01:10:14,870 --> 01:10:12,159
but phenomenologically in terms of the

1835
01:10:16,630 --> 01:10:14,880
the um the experience of the mediums no

1836
01:10:18,550 --> 01:10:16,640
uh and i don't think there would be

1837
01:10:21,750 --> 01:10:18,560
right we um there's more and more

1838
01:10:24,149 --> 01:10:21,760
evidence to support the idea that um in

1839
01:10:26,790 --> 01:10:24,159
mainstream science about

1840
01:10:30,070 --> 01:10:26,800
uh the existence of consciousness in a

1841
01:10:32,470 --> 01:10:30,080
wide range of non-human animals and if

1842
01:10:34,950 --> 01:10:32,480
psy and postmortem survival of

1843
01:10:36,310 --> 01:10:34,960
consciousness is simply a function of

1844
01:10:39,270 --> 01:10:36,320
consciousness

1845
01:10:41,910 --> 01:10:39,280
uh regardless of what body it lands in

1846
01:10:44,390 --> 01:10:41,920
then uh i would see all the same things

1847
01:10:46,790 --> 01:10:44,400
that we would see expect uh from a

1848
01:10:48,709 --> 01:10:46,800
non-human from uh non-human psy

1849
01:10:51,590 --> 01:10:48,719
interactions to apply to

1850
01:10:53,750 --> 01:10:51,600
uh sorry from human not from human psy

1851
01:10:55,110 --> 01:10:53,760
interactions to non-human sides it's

1852
01:10:57,350 --> 01:10:55,120
very early here and i haven't had a lot

1853
01:11:02,229 --> 01:10:57,360
of cause okay go ahead

1854
01:11:07,270 --> 01:11:03,910
let's see

1855
01:11:11,750 --> 01:11:09,270
how do you see the completely automated

1856
01:11:13,430 --> 01:11:11,760
approach to the afterlife communic um

1857
01:11:14,870 --> 01:11:13,440
i'm sorry how do you see the completely

1858
01:11:16,790 --> 01:11:14,880
automated approach to afterlife

1859
01:11:18,070 --> 01:11:16,800
communication being used by gary

1860
01:11:20,630 --> 01:11:18,080
schwartz

1861
01:11:22,630 --> 01:11:20,640
i can't really speak to that project i i

1862
01:11:27,110 --> 01:11:22,640
mean i know that instrumental trans

1863
01:11:29,110 --> 01:11:27,120
communication and itc has been used um

1864
01:11:31,590 --> 01:11:29,120
it's been around for a long time people

1865
01:11:35,189 --> 01:11:31,600
are using all kinds of technologies

1866
01:11:36,310 --> 01:11:35,199
um there's a fundamental problem however

1867
01:11:39,110 --> 01:11:36,320
with um

1868
01:11:40,790 --> 01:11:39,120
with any sort of pk-based

1869
01:11:42,790 --> 01:11:40,800
um

1870
01:11:45,030 --> 01:11:42,800
communication system is that it's what

1871
01:11:46,630 --> 01:11:45,040
we call the source of psi problem

1872
01:11:48,390 --> 01:11:46,640
we don't know the source of the

1873
01:11:50,390 --> 01:11:48,400
psychokinesis

1874
01:11:52,630 --> 01:11:50,400
so for example if i'm using

1875
01:11:54,149 --> 01:11:52,640
an environmental sensor or random event

1876
01:11:56,070 --> 01:11:54,159
generator and i'm interpreting those

1877
01:11:58,630 --> 01:11:56,080
data as a communication from a

1878
01:12:01,430 --> 01:11:58,640
discarnate i can't really point

1879
01:12:04,149 --> 01:12:01,440
a meter or something and say oh

1880
01:12:05,830 --> 01:12:04,159
that effect definitely came from that

1881
01:12:07,830 --> 01:12:05,840
consciousness over here

1882
01:12:10,310 --> 01:12:07,840
and not the highly motivated

1883
01:12:13,030 --> 01:12:10,320
consciousness of the operator or the

1884
01:12:15,030 --> 01:12:13,040
experimenter or the person that spent uh

1885
01:12:17,430 --> 01:12:15,040
decades of their career trying to prove

1886
01:12:19,990 --> 01:12:17,440
a particular theory or spent thousands

1887
01:12:22,709 --> 01:12:20,000
of dollars of their own money trying to

1888
01:12:25,430 --> 01:12:22,719
promote a particular theory yeah

1889
01:12:26,630 --> 01:12:25,440
so that makes sense

1890
01:12:29,030 --> 01:12:26,640
so i think it's interesting it's an

1891
01:12:31,030 --> 01:12:29,040
interesting line of inquiry clearly itc

1892
01:12:33,270 --> 01:12:31,040
instrumental transcommunication

1893
01:12:35,590 --> 01:12:33,280
evp things like that i think it's really

1894
01:12:38,470 --> 01:12:35,600
interesting and really cool it's still

1895
01:12:40,950 --> 01:12:38,480
the it's still very questionable as to

1896
01:12:43,590 --> 01:12:40,960
how much that's all speaks

1897
01:12:45,669 --> 01:12:43,600
to the afterlife and discarnate

1898
01:12:46,709 --> 01:12:45,679
communication

1899
01:12:48,870 --> 01:12:46,719
okay

1900
01:12:50,950 --> 01:12:48,880
well robert thanks for the question

1901
01:12:53,110 --> 01:12:50,960
we have another one from analisa this

1902
01:12:55,110 --> 01:12:53,120
time coming from a youtube viewer oh

1903
01:12:57,750 --> 01:12:55,120
great and you

1904
01:12:59,910 --> 01:12:57,760
sorry sorry youtube sorry i i just i

1905
01:13:00,870 --> 01:12:59,920
have bad experiences with social media

1906
01:13:03,669 --> 01:13:00,880
and i'm

1907
01:13:06,070 --> 01:13:03,679
so so hi youtubers i'm so happy you're

1908
01:13:07,830 --> 01:13:06,080
here um it's the question is can you

1909
01:13:10,229 --> 01:13:07,840
recommend any researchers looking at

1910
01:13:13,270 --> 01:13:10,239
high frequency ear ringing and clicking

1911
01:13:16,229 --> 01:13:13,280
associated with claire clara audience

1912
01:13:18,709 --> 01:13:16,239
no uh i can't it's uh it's that's not an

1913
01:13:20,630 --> 01:13:18,719
area i have any expertise in okay i'm

1914
01:13:22,470 --> 01:13:20,640
sorry sorry and that was a lovely

1915
01:13:26,390 --> 01:13:22,480
question by the way thank you certainly

1916
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:29,110
all right

1917
01:13:39,590 --> 01:13:31,110
seeing if we have any more it looks like

1918
01:13:43,910 --> 01:13:41,990
we'll take this last one

1919
01:13:45,990 --> 01:13:43,920
is since mediums are doing phone

1920
01:13:47,430 --> 01:13:46,000
readings do you have any concern with

1921
01:13:48,630 --> 01:13:47,440
hot readings

1922
01:13:49,590 --> 01:13:48,640
for instance

1923
01:13:53,430 --> 01:13:49,600
um

1924
01:13:54,790 --> 01:13:53,440
looking the person up on social media

1925
01:13:57,110 --> 01:13:54,800
or anything like that

1926
01:13:59,430 --> 01:13:57,120
yeah it's funny uh someone must have

1927
01:14:01,910 --> 01:13:59,440
blogged about this

1928
01:14:05,270 --> 01:14:01,920
uh i have been i've been um fielding

1929
01:14:07,750 --> 01:14:05,280
this question almost non-stop for like

1930
01:14:09,189 --> 01:14:07,760
a month now and it just keeps popping we

1931
01:14:10,870 --> 01:14:09,199
didn't hear about this at all like

1932
01:14:13,510 --> 01:14:10,880
before like month month and a half ago

1933
01:14:15,990 --> 01:14:13,520
and now it's like all up in my newsfeed

1934
01:14:17,430 --> 01:14:16,000
and in my inbox so

1935
01:14:18,790 --> 01:14:17,440
the problem with things like this is

1936
01:14:21,590 --> 01:14:18,800
just because you can imagine the

1937
01:14:23,430 --> 01:14:21,600
possibility of doing it uh

1938
01:14:25,110 --> 01:14:23,440
you have to actually provide evidence

1939
01:14:27,510 --> 01:14:25,120
that it happened or that it's even

1940
01:14:30,790 --> 01:14:27,520
feasible so sure we're doing a phone

1941
01:14:33,030 --> 01:14:30,800
reading here's what the medium hears

1942
01:14:33,990 --> 01:14:33,040
when they do a phone reading

1943
01:14:36,070 --> 01:14:34,000
hello

1944
01:14:37,189 --> 01:14:36,080
today you're going to do a reading for

1945
01:14:44,070 --> 01:14:37,199
karen

1946
01:14:46,790 --> 01:14:44,080
please provide a cause of death for

1947
01:14:49,590 --> 01:14:46,800
karen please describe karen's

1948
01:14:51,910 --> 01:14:49,600
personality i would like to see anyone

1949
01:14:54,390 --> 01:14:51,920
in this audience take that and i'm

1950
01:14:55,350 --> 01:14:54,400
thinking of a specific karen by the way

1951
01:14:57,350 --> 01:14:55,360
um

1952
01:15:00,149 --> 01:14:57,360
take that information that i just gave

1953
01:15:01,030 --> 01:15:00,159
you and hot read that but here's the

1954
01:15:03,350 --> 01:15:01,040
thing

1955
01:15:05,590 --> 01:15:03,360
you have to show your work you have to

1956
01:15:06,630 --> 01:15:05,600
show what websites you went to you have

1957
01:15:09,830 --> 01:15:06,640
to show

1958
01:15:12,229 --> 01:15:09,840
what tables you looked up you to to

1959
01:15:15,510 --> 01:15:12,239
provide me with all that information

1960
01:15:19,270 --> 01:15:15,520
because if you use any guessing or

1961
01:15:21,669 --> 01:15:19,280
intuitive thinking you're using psi yeah

1962
01:15:25,189 --> 01:15:21,679
so you have to show that you were able

1963
01:15:26,709 --> 01:15:25,199
to find that information using available

1964
01:15:28,630 --> 01:15:26,719
resources

1965
01:15:31,189 --> 01:15:28,640
and i look forward to

1966
01:15:32,950 --> 01:15:31,199
seeing people respond to that

1967
01:15:34,229 --> 01:15:32,960
at some point in the future yeah no

1968
01:15:35,669 --> 01:15:34,239
great point

1969
01:15:39,030 --> 01:15:35,679
all right we have analysis it looks like

1970
01:15:40,390 --> 01:15:39,040
joining us i guess we're wrapping up now

1971
01:15:41,590 --> 01:15:40,400
yes

1972
01:15:43,030 --> 01:15:41,600
thank you

1973
01:15:45,270 --> 01:15:43,040
mark that was excellent and i'm of

1974
01:15:46,229 --> 01:15:45,280
course looking forward to all the things

1975
01:15:48,310 --> 01:15:46,239
that you're doing and that we're doing

1976
01:15:50,070 --> 01:15:48,320
together at the upcoming conference oh

1977
01:15:51,910 --> 01:15:50,080
yeah right we have the climate change

1978
01:15:54,149 --> 01:15:51,920
talk too i totally didn't mention that

1979
01:15:57,750 --> 01:15:54,159
when you asked yeah that would also be

1980
01:15:59,350 --> 01:15:57,760
very exciting um so uh we are coming up

1981
01:16:00,229 --> 01:15:59,360
on a break

1982
01:16:01,750 --> 01:16:00,239
we're actually a little ahead of

1983
01:16:03,910 --> 01:16:01,760
schedule so the networking break starts

1984
01:16:05,510 --> 01:16:03,920
in about seven minutes um i'm going to

1985
01:16:07,110 --> 01:16:05,520
encourage that i'll take maybe a quick

1986
01:16:08,149 --> 01:16:07,120
bio break or something and then come

1987
01:16:11,430 --> 01:16:08,159
back

1988
01:16:13,750 --> 01:16:11,440
at 15 past the hour um this networking

1989
01:16:17,189 --> 01:16:13,760
break a few things going on mark has

1990
01:16:18,870 --> 01:16:17,199
agreed to sit at a mediumship table to

1991
01:16:20,550 --> 01:16:18,880
discuss any lingering questions that you

1992
01:16:23,189 --> 01:16:20,560
might have

1993
01:16:25,110 --> 01:16:23,199
we also have individuals

1994
01:16:27,270 --> 01:16:25,120
hosting tables from the

1995
01:16:29,750 --> 01:16:27,280
parapsychological association the

1996
01:16:31,910 --> 01:16:29,760
society for scientific exploration from

1997
01:16:34,149 --> 01:16:31,920
our sponsor the rhine education center

1998
01:16:36,149 --> 01:16:34,159
and also public prayer psychology for

1999
01:16:38,149 --> 01:16:36,159
this networking break i really highly

2000
01:16:40,149 --> 01:16:38,159
encourage table hopping

2001
01:16:41,830 --> 01:16:40,159
um these people are there to talk about

2002
01:16:44,390 --> 01:16:41,840
their associations talk about membership

2003
01:16:45,350 --> 01:16:44,400
to answer your questions hop around get

2004
01:16:47,669 --> 01:16:45,360
to know some of the people in the

2005
01:16:48,790 --> 01:16:47,679
associations maybe

2006
01:16:51,189 --> 01:16:48,800
there will probably be a couple other

2007
01:16:52,790 --> 01:16:51,199
topical tables open uh get to know some

2008
01:16:55,110 --> 01:16:52,800
some attendees but we don't require you

2009
01:16:57,430 --> 01:16:55,120
to sit for the entire half hour wherever

2010
01:16:59,510 --> 01:16:57,440
you end up so so do feel free to move

2011
01:17:02,550 --> 01:16:59,520
around and we hope that you will uh so

2012
01:17:04,950 --> 01:17:02,560
that will start in about um

2013
01:17:07,030 --> 01:17:04,960
five minutes and it will end if you can

2014
01:17:08,630 --> 01:17:07,040
look at the top of your browser where it

2015
01:17:10,709 --> 01:17:08,640
says view schedule that's kind of where

2016
01:17:13,510 --> 01:17:10,719
what we're working with so that'll end

2017
01:17:15,590 --> 01:17:13,520
at 2 45 eastern time so about 30 minutes

2018
01:17:18,070 --> 01:17:15,600
of the networking break which again will

2019
01:17:20,630 --> 01:17:18,080
begin in about five minutes so thank you

2020
01:17:22,070 --> 01:17:20,640
again mark thank you justin for hosting